00;00;01;04 - 00;00;25;03
Liz Kay
Hello and welcome to the Providence College Podcast. I'm your host, Liz Kay. And I'm joined by producer Chris Judge of the Class of 2005 here in the Province College podcast. We bring you interesting stories from the Friar family. This week, we had the pleasure speaking with Sean Duggan, a PC grads in the class of 1993. Doug has spent two decades working in advertising for media companies such as ABC, ESPN, NPR, Sirius XM, and most recently, Pandora.

00;00;25;06 - 00;00;40;24
Liz Kay
In 2021, the lifelong surfer added a new title to his resume film director and producer. With the release of Keep It a Secret, a documentary about the birth of surfing in Ireland with International Surfing Day on June 17th, it's the perfect time to learn more about this project. Shawn, thanks so much for joining us.

00;00;40;29 - 00;00;42;09
Sean Duggan
Great to be here. Thanks for having.

00;00;42;09 - 00;00;49;00
Liz Kay
Me. So you're based in Los Angeles, but we're actually recording this conversation in person because you're here for a reunion. That's right. Welcome back to Fresh Hotel.

00;00;49;03 - 00;00;50;14
Sean Duggan
Great to be here. Excellent.

00;00;50;18 - 00;00;51;29
Liz Kay
What are you looking forward to this weekend?

00;00;52;06 - 00;01;11;23
Sean Duggan
You know, I haven't you know, I haven't spent that much time on campus in many years. I was here briefly in the fall. So, you know, quite frankly, just to kind of see the campus just walking up here just now, it's like it's wow, it's really has transformed. I heard stories about it, even like coming in here. I was in the athletic center quickly, like last fall.

00;01;11;26 - 00;01;33;20
Sean Duggan
But now walking in here, it really is. It's pretty impressive. And then also people like nightmare for this are going to find WI fi and work for here for a few hours. And then, yeah, older roommates coming up we're have lunch today catch up with a lot of people so yeah we multigenerational in our family my brother 88 grad nephew 18.

00;01;33;20 - 00;01;37;08
Sean Duggan
So we're going to see some family too. So yeah I'm really excited for the weekend.

00;01;37;09 - 00;01;46;11
Liz Kay
Conveniently all celebrating their reunions as well this weekend certainly. So tell us a little about your background as a surfer and your connection to Ireland.

00;01;46;13 - 00;02;08;22
Sean Duggan
So I grew up in Westfield, New Jersey, which is like central New Jersey. And, you know, summers were, you know, pretty much down the Jersey shore. That was our getaway. It was like that was kind of the definition of a family vacation in the Dugan family was like or camp because like, my mom was like, okay, get in the car.

00;02;08;27 - 00;02;28;03
Sean Duggan
We're going down the shore. You guys are driving me crazy. And we go down for the day for like 50 minutes on the parkway to Belmar or Manasquan. And so I always grew up, you know, you know, in the water, like all day, like in the summer. And that was kind of like the definition of summer. And then but also my I'm second generation Irish.

00;02;28;03 - 00;03;04;23
Sean Duggan
I'm an Irish, actually, dual citizen. My parents grew up in Newark, New Jersey, and all of their parents are born in Ireland. So, you know, really formative trip. It was, you know, my first trip over to Ireland when I was around seven, you know, on the west coast of Ireland. And, you know, just, you know, kind of hearing I'd heard about the stories from my grandparents, but, you know, going there and then going back many times over many years, you know, really, I always had a big I think it's also my first time on a plane, you know, your first time as as a child.

00;03;04;23 - 00;03;29;17
Sean Duggan
I think your memories loom larger. And, you know, the place where I went, it's still one of the most spectacular, beautiful places. Sligo, kind of in the northern part of the Republic of Ireland. And so, you know, that has always been, you know, part of my DNA growing up the ocean and Ireland. And yeah, that's kind of the background of how those things would eventually connect for the first film project.

00;03;29;19 - 00;03;39;09
Liz Kay
So I think a lot of people would be surprised to think of Ireland as a surfing destination, though. How does surfing there compare to other places like water temperatures with the waves?

00;03;39;14 - 00;04;00;19
Sean Duggan
Yeah, it's you know, it it's funny, it's like as I've gone through the project and, you know, the way I kind of heard about, I obviously saw and I experienced, you know, firsthand how cold the water was when I was like seven years old swimming in Sligo and Strand Hill. And it was like, it's cold, bracing, cold. But, you know, I was like, there's water.

00;04;00;19 - 00;04;21;04
Sean Duggan
I'm going in, you know? So you know what I kind of saw was like, Hey, there's got to be waves there. And as I became, you know, more into surfing in my adult life, you know, I started just doing the YouTube kind of trolling. Like I was like, okay, let's see if there's waves here. I'm like, if they're waves around Strand Hill and I'm like, It's got to be some good surf.

00;04;21;04 - 00;04;43;21
Sean Duggan
And, you know, it's and then sure enough, like it started to come out and honestly, in the surfing community, I think it's been pretty well established for a long time. It's not that much of a secret. But, you know, I think the reaction from the film, like pretty much half the people have that exact reaction. It's like, wait, surfing in Ireland and didn't know it was a thing.

00;04;43;23 - 00;05;00;09
Sean Duggan
And so, you know, I'd always I was kind of always interested. I was just curious about it. And when I kind of for me, just curiosity of a surfer background and honest, like I was like kind of regret. My surfing is so beautiful. That's kind of was the seed of curiosity about it.

00;05;00;11 - 00;05;09;14
Liz Kay
I kind of feel like in watching the film, you get the sense that like when you were a surfer, your surfers lens is always like, Can I can I surf that? Like because yeah, yeah. Is that a wave?

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Sean Duggan
I'm going to be like, not crowded. Is it going to be a really good break? Yeah, exactly.

00;05;14;00 - 00;05;16;00
Liz Kay
So just constantly scanning the horizon, for.

00;05;16;00 - 00;05;19;19
Sean Duggan
Example, to find good spots, it's like that's kind of that. Always the search.

00;05;19;21 - 00;05;33;20
Liz Kay
The film really seems to be kind of like an ode to this. This one gentleman in Ireland, Kevin Casey, and his friends, just like, just like overwhelming desire to bring surfing to Ireland. How did you first learn about a story?

00;05;33;23 - 00;06;01;06
Sean Duggan
Well, the way I the way I kind of found the project and, you know, and maybe a step into it was like I was, you know, then it was my career in advertising. And I think my big passions, you know, kind of like voice been music probably number one and film and then sport, you know, those are definitely like three big pillars of my interest where my curiosity and passions lie.

00;06;01;08 - 00;06;25;19
Sean Duggan
And when, you know, I had spent most of my career in advertising and I was just, you know, about six, seven years ago, I was like, you know, if if I'd never I was like, I like I love films so much, I would regret it if I didn't do something beyond just be somebody who watches films. And I just was like, my hunch I would I would do something I'd look back on.

00;06;25;19 - 00;06;51;10
Sean Duggan
So I was like, obviously starting a family in your forties, not your traditional time to go off to film school, I probably could have gone but would apply. I had to just also file my divorce papers at that time too. So, you know, I started talking to friends in New York who were in film and like, hey, just kind of picking brain and then started feeling like, hey, maybe, maybe producing a film would be a way to get into it.

00;06;51;10 - 00;07;19;11
Sean Duggan
And so what I started doing was I had sat with producers and they're like, Well, there's really two ways. And you either have to optioned something, a script or write a script. Those are kind of the two ways and come up with an idea or develop one that you get the rights to. And, you know, I had sort of, you know, just on a yellow legal pad like writing down ideas which which would not require $100 million in financing.

00;07;19;14 - 00;07;53;19
Sean Duggan
And, you know, one of the ideas like I just had very, you know, surfing Irish story, it was very basic. And at that time when I kind of just just noodling ideas, I was thinking of coming up with a script of a fictionalized, you know, story of a surfer coming to Ireland and then early on in the research, almost in the first few days, I stumbled upon this name, Kevin K.V., this grandfather of Irish surfing, and I just shot him a note and we wound up having a phone call and he was like, Hey, yeah, yeah.

00;07;53;19 - 00;08;17;08
Sean Duggan
And then all of a sudden I started like a quickly kind of was like, Wow, has this story ever been told? And, you know, he had self-published a book and then I was like, it kind of pivoted pretty quickly from I was like, in July. And then two months later I was going to this very big reunion in Ireland of like the 50th anniversary of the surf contest.

00;08;17;08 - 00;08;27;03
Sean Duggan
And kind of quickly went from this idea of a scripted story to a documentary. So it kind of morphed on its own. Yeah.

00;08;27;06 - 00;08;32;19
Liz Kay
But like the it almost seems like the reality was as good a story as anything, any fiction you can create.

00;08;32;19 - 00;08;52;26
Sean Duggan
I was thinking in the things that I was. Yeah, that was kind of it. It was like, you know, I was like, I was like, Hey, if this is not been covered, I felt like it should be. And, and it also just seemed interesting to me also, you know, as I was starting to read, I read his his book, How Green Was Our Wave, I believe in its title.

00;08;53;03 - 00;09;18;05
Sean Duggan
And that when I saw it, I was also kind of fascinated because I had a familiarity of a few years later when I was first in Ireland the seventies, but I also knew it was like I was kind of drawn by the contrasts because it was also the beginning of the Troubles conflict. When Ireland is, you know, very divided in many ways and and it was still untouched by modernity.

00;09;18;05 - 00;09;29;19
Sean Duggan
And it was like a lot of opportunities for like wonderful contrasts, which are just kind of like I kind of like that kind of pulled me in also. Is that a curiosity level?

00;09;29;21 - 00;09;38;12
Liz Kay
So speaking of contrasts, I think some of the footage in the film is just amazing. And can you tell us how you got all of this video and photos from that era?

00;09;38;15 - 00;10;04;27
Sean Duggan
Yeah, so it was well, one of the things I have to tip my hat and thank you to my producer, being a crime viewer who is a well regarded director and editor, film editor in her own right, she literally was a neighbor of mine in Brooklyn and was you know, I was picking her brain. She knew I was going to try to get a film project going.

00;10;05;00 - 00;10;25;12
Sean Duggan
And, you know, I told her, hey, this is the idea. And, you know, I said, hey, I found out there's a big reunion. I started doing some Zoom calls with people. This is pre-COVID. And, you know, she was just I told her I was going to go over to do some preliminary interviews to see, hey, how much of the story was there?

00;10;25;15 - 00;10;49;23
Sean Duggan
And she gave some what turned out to be hugely important advice. She was like, you know what? Get a good director of photography and a good audio engineer and all of your interviews, your research interviews, record them. And, you know, over that weekend of that reunion, I did fortunate for me, unfortunately for the context, it was flat into Moore, Ireland, which means the guys were not in the water.

00;10;49;24 - 00;11;23;15
Sean Duggan
I could get them to sit down. And I those wound up being really the principle master interviews of I had. And some of them, you know, have unfortunately since passed. Some of them live really far away outside of Ireland. So I was really it was a great opportunity. And honestly, like and back to your question of the footage of one of the guys who came in, Hugh O'Brien Moran, who is a you know, one of the real pioneers, you know, and a really well-regarded photographer.

00;11;23;15 - 00;11;48;18
Sean Duggan
He and his wife, Margaret, who is also a great surfer, they he just walked in very quietly. He has a beautiful, like lovely lilt of a you know, I love his accent. He's actually in our trailer. His voice is very prominent and he just kind of I understand you're looking for some photos and he just kind of comes and he hands me a drive of like, you know, 300 stills and basically says, these might be helpful.

00;11;48;18 - 00;12;34;09
Sean Duggan
And so all of a sudden, I have, you know, in a documentary, you really you there's so many stories I couldn't tell because if you can't show it, you really can do it in a podcast like this. But you can unless you have the archive footage. So that was huge. Roger Stedman, who is the British executive who comes over to join this Irish group, he also had some great you know, old like Super eight footage, and then the other one, the other two who were hugely helpful was Kevin Naughton, a Californian, and Craig Peterson, who, you know, together, like they they are widely regarded as kind of the founding fathers of travel surf journalism, which,

00;12;34;09 - 00;12;58;24
Sean Duggan
you know, is now with Instagram. It's huge. But they were the ones doing it like like literally like going to like Africa, you know, Ghana, like all these places that had never been surfed before. And they would write articles. Craig was the actually the youngest photographer ever for Surfer magazine. At 16, he was the staff photographer for California.

00;12;59;00 - 00;13;25;02
Sean Duggan
And and Kevin is a pretty well-regarded journalist and writer. So and they you know, Kevin, this was like, hey, if you can if you want to pick up that my my footage, digitize it you can take it. So you know those we definitely had some serendipitous moments of even like when we were down to final editing, you know, we were getting I was getting stuff from like Belfast crew of great footage.

00;13;25;04 - 00;13;32;13
Sean Duggan
So, you know, a lot of it is luck, but, you know, it's actually it's part tenacity, part, you know, just being in the right place at the right time.

00;13;32;15 - 00;13;40;13
Liz Kay
It it seems from because it all adds such a nostalgic feel to the whole film and skin that you get. You get that whole movie. Yeah, for sure.

00;13;40;16 - 00;14;00;09
Sean Duggan
Yeah. It really without it, then it's a different film and it's a lot of, you know, just because, you know, I didn't do a lot of verité footage of like movie at the end where I'm kind of tracking Kevin, getting into the water surfing. But it's a lot of, you know, sitting in chairs telling stories. So without that footage, it would be it would be a kind of a limited story.

00;14;00;11 - 00;14;22;05
Liz Kay
So you'd you reference the troubles and the way the surfers like, you know, this is this all happened against the backdrop of the troubles. It's interesting to me that these surfers, like they were having their own conflicts, but it was so not political. They had a kind of a different challenge that they were, you know, on both sides of the border.

00;14;22;05 - 00;14;28;23
Liz Kay
You mentioned the Belfast crew, and then there's a group from the Republic of Ireland, and they both had different goals. Yeah. Talk a little bit about those two goals that they Yeah.

00;14;28;23 - 00;14;48;29
Sean Duggan
I mean, you know, when I was going in, you know, and I, you know, from what I've heard from other filmmakers, it's like, you know, when you're starting off in a documentary, it's not like, you know, you start off with an original idea and it's it's just it's a matter of degrees how far off you're going to be or your original destination.

00;14;49;01 - 00;15;16;29
Sean Duggan
Sometimes it's 10%, sometimes it's 180 degrees. You know what? I was you know, I was curious about, hey, was there polarization going in? I was like, you know, and were there rivalries on the political front? And, you know, and I never really came across it. I mean, some very small stuff. But but by and large, it's like, you know, the theme that came through was it really wasn't, you know, in the water.

00;15;16;29 - 00;15;41;23
Sean Duggan
I think Kevin Naughton says it. You're really defined by who you are. You know how good or bad a surfer you are really determines your identity, not your your religion or, you know, country background, which is, you know, hey, that's a beautiful theme of like, you know, so many great sports movies have kind of covered that that, you know, sport that theme of sports transcending political differences, ideological differences.

00;15;41;26 - 00;16;09;29
Sean Duggan
Hey, that's a theme that, you know, definitely resonate, Ed, when you were talking to the folks. But but also of, you know, for myself, you know, like kind of like, you know, as I went through the film, it definitely there was a personal journey from it. Partially it was out of necessity because, like, I couldn't afford to, you know, bring on Kieran Hines to narrate it, or one of my favorite Irish direct, you know, one of the Game of Thrones, many Irish talent who are in that.

00;16;10;01 - 00;16;30;04
Sean Duggan
So I had to I took on the role as not. NARRATOR But, but, you know, myself, you know, going over to Ireland, you know, I had been over to Ireland, you know, numerous times, you know, by the time but, you know, and where Sligo is were the place where I would go. Most often it's about roughly 25 miles from the border.

00;16;30;06 - 00;17;01;09
Sean Duggan
But like it was never discussed, we would never go north of the border. And it's like that's it's funny. It's there's a lot of what I uncovered when I was making the film as Hey, the Troubles. Luckily there's been a basically, you know, a long, you know, period of peace, which is great, you know, since 1998. But, you know, with Brexit, there's still, you know, nervousness because it was a you know, it's been a very long it was struggle before the peace accord of the Good Friday Agreement.

00;17;01;11 - 00;17;21;23
Sean Duggan
So it was, you know, also I felt like, you know, if I was going to cover 68 to 72, which is mostly where the film, the film focus is, and, you know, if I wasn't going to cover it, it would be like almost a a crime, an error of omission, you know, to leave it out and to not acknowledge it.

00;17;21;23 - 00;17;52;11
Sean Duggan
And then, you know, but I knew also, like I would really need the Belfast crew to do that because these they were 18 year olds, 20 year olds like living through it to kind of let them kind of tell the story. And I did learn like, hey, that they look to Selma, you know, for like the, you know, the rights, you know, of like, you know, access to education, housing, jobs was that was fascinating to me because I'd never, you know, always hear about the polarization but not hate like, you know, the civil rights.

00;17;52;11 - 00;18;08;01
Sean Duggan
And I thought that was like, fascinating. So hopefully that shines light on something because that's kind of what I look for for a film is like, you know, in particularly documentary, it's a hopefully entertaining, but also hopefully sheds light some things that, you know, didn't previously know.

00;18;08;03 - 00;18;30;05
Liz Kay
You know, it's so interesting to think about. I feel like I've seen other references to the inspiration that the civil rights movement in the U.S. in the South inspiring Ireland. Others like Roddy Doyle when he got off key me mentions that in his his novels, you know Yeah. So it's it it's fascinating that this is another point of inspiration right that like to to take this on.

00;18;30;05 - 00;18;32;24
Sean Duggan
You know I love right I had a great, great stories. Yeah.

00;18;32;27 - 00;18;41;16
Liz Kay
Do you think that the surfing was kind of a respite from that political era for for when when these groups would get together?

00;18;41;24 - 00;19;06;00
Sean Duggan
Yeah, I definitely, you know, you know, the other thing and part of it was definitely for the Belfast crew because, you know, they were living in a, you know, ostensibly a war zone at that time. You know, at that time it was, you know, you know, pretty much the most dangerous place, the longest conflict in Europe. You know, for that time period, really from like 68 to 98.

00;19;06;02 - 00;19;30;15
Sean Duggan
And, you know, they were these were you know, they were is a very oppressive time. You know, I kind of like, you know, Davy Garvin, who's, you know, kind of one of our primary subjects. The way he talks about it was, you know, it was like he talks about like get to the border and it just like you feel like you're a thousand miles away and hate the realities that this is 80 miles away.

00;19;30;17 - 00;19;51;08
Sean Duggan
But, you know, and from a psychological, political and, you know, hey, even like, you know, hey, physical potential risk it really was different when you got over the border. You know, the violence really did not. It eventually did spill into the south. We really didn't cover that in the film because it's like, hey, it's like that was later.

00;19;51;08 - 00;20;18;24
Sean Duggan
But but in a way that he described, it was it was all too eye opening, you know, kind of like experiencing these other cultures in a way that like and also, you know, being a surfer, they also had an outsider ness that was like apolitical, too. You know, I think that also kind of put them they were just more like seen like aliens from a different planet, you know, because people were like, you know, what are they doing?

00;20;18;24 - 00;20;36;26
Sean Duggan
They're walking up in the water, Yeah, these guys. So I think there was I think that's something that I think the Belfast crew that I picked up in their conversations with them, they appreciated being on the outside and stepping out of that, you know, you know, tough trying, you know, oppressive time when they were living through it.

00;20;36;27 - 00;20;38;01
Liz Kay
Just be out on the water.

00;20;38;02 - 00;20;39;13
Sean Duggan
Yeah, exactly.

00;20;39;15 - 00;21;02;07
Liz Kay
But they did have this conflict with the other group with Kevin Davy and his his team, who kind of wanted, you know, to let the world know that Ireland was this surfing destination. So I'm curious where you fell on those lines. Like where? Like after listening to both of them talk about, like, you know, the Belfast folks kind of wanting to keep it a secret, as you alluded to in the title of the doc.

00;21;02;10 - 00;21;06;20
Liz Kay
Like, what do you think? Do you how do you reflect on what they ended up accomplishing? You know what?

00;21;06;20 - 00;21;42;15
Sean Duggan
I feel like you know, I look at I see, hey, there's there's some both sides. You know, what I'd say is like, I do think like the reality is when you're thinking about, you know, commercialization of sport, you know, that's always been, you know, rife with like, you know, hey, you know, is is that tainting the sport? You know, and and there is that this preciousness of surfing, you know, it's like, you know, surfing is a it can be very solitary.

00;21;42;20 - 00;21;59;19
Sean Duggan
You know, you can be like, hey, you want to be out there, but you want to be enjoying the waves with the smaller group. Ideally. I mean, some of the breaks I surf in L.A. are just, you know, there are mob scene. You know, you have to be out there early because you're going to be out there with 300 other surfers and and I think, you know what?

00;21;59;22 - 00;22;21;27
Sean Duggan
What I I really appreciated that both Kevin and the Dublin crew. Hey, you know, there was a real pride thing about putting Ireland on the international surf map, you know, of like, we're not just a forgotten, you know, Kevin says an island in the Atlantic. But you know, the perspective of the Belfast crew whose lives were very different.

00;22;21;28 - 00;22;48;15
Sean Duggan
They were you know, they were, you know, hey, like there was real threat every day and their their lives, you know, this was a magical time on the West Coast that, like, have like, you know, basically about 12, 15 people having an island to themselves of over, you know, 1500 miles of coast to themselves is kind of an unheard of like the ultimate secret spot.

00;22;48;17 - 00;23;26;03
Sean Duggan
So I very much appreciate I think they what they were aware of was just how special this time was. And but, you know, it's funny, you know, hindsight's everything. You know, there were some of them were reluctant to talk about the conflict between them, but we eventually got it. You know, they and now it's like I've surfed with both Davy and Kevin, which is maybe the maybe the best part of this whole project is, you know, and honestly, they you know, they can Davy's like, you know, he although he was the one for the keep it a secret, you know, he's very proud of, you know, how how Ireland is on the map.

00;23;26;05 - 00;23;45;14
Sean Duggan
I think he's evolved to to see that you know Wight rocks the beach he grew up surfing on is now really a great place. It's really well known on the West Coast, known for Game of Thrones. Every like in a green Sea in the Game of Thrones is filmed right there when I was doing these interviews. But yeah, surfing is huge up there now.

00;23;45;17 - 00;23;49;00
Liz Kay
So if you're going on your Game of Thrones tour, yeah, definitely take your to board.

00;23;49;00 - 00;23;51;18
Sean Duggan
Get a farmer up there too. Yeah.

00;23;51;20 - 00;23;56;28
Liz Kay
So Rhode Island, of course, has its own surf scene. Did you ever catch any waves here when you were a student?

00;23;56;28 - 00;24;28;19
Sean Duggan
I you know, I never I don't know. I was playing to watch basketball and in the, you know, the gym here, I was much more of a basketball gym right here. And then, you know, I, I kicked myself because I discovered BLOCK Island later in life in my late twenties. And I think if I had known about it when I was in college, I probably never gone back to Jersey because I do think, you know, Rhode Island has some of the great spots in New England.

00;24;28;19 - 00;24;55;14
Sean Duggan
And yeah, I love BLOCK Island. I try to go every fall with a group of friends. It's I call it my annual secular retreat. So it is it's gorgeous. I think, you know, it's one of these gems that you know and it's funny out there. There's a very much keep it a secret five. There's no surf camps. And, you know, it's like, yeah, So I get to watch what I say on this podcast in case it sounds greater rely on want to come enemy number one?

00;24;55;16 - 00;24;56;15
Liz Kay
Do I want to give any clues?

00;24;56;15 - 00;24;57;06
Sean Duggan
No, I.

00;24;57;06 - 00;24;57;13
Liz Kay
Don't.

00;24;57;13 - 00;25;00;16
Sean Duggan
I don't want to be attacked when I get off the ferry this fall.

00;25;00;19 - 00;25;05;19
Liz Kay
So we always ask alums what brought them to Providence College. What brought you up here from Jersey?

00;25;05;21 - 00;25;32;27
Sean Duggan
You know what? I was looking at schools, you know, pretty much northeast when I, I had exposure to Providence because my brother Patrick and my sister in law, Maureen, who actually will be at the alumni weekend, there are 88. So I knew Providence well and I knew his friends were all going out tonight. Dinner for I go to my class reunion thing.

00;25;33;00 - 00;25;56;29
Sean Duggan
So I knew Providence, you know, But I was, you know, looking at other schools. And I didn't when I were eventually I think when I saw the opportunity come up here, it's funny on my part, my initial, you know, semester, I thought I was going to be pre-med, you know, came in. I did biology. It was probably the toughest semester I have had my worst GPA.

00;25;57;02 - 00;26;19;03
Sean Duggan
Second semester I switched over to humanities, but, you know, I think the thing that I, I, I was kind of on this track where I thought I was going to be on the medicine sciences track. And you know what? I think I wound up on the right one a humanities. I wound up taking a bizarre mix of classes.

00;26;19;03 - 00;26;38;17
Sean Duggan
My first semester I took like, you know, you take usually a light elective. My elective was Latin. I don't know why did that, but but I was curious about languages. And then I wound up meeting Dr. Duffy, who is the head of the Humanities department. And I kind of knew I want to get out of the sciences. And he just was like, Hey, you're curious about languages.

00;26;38;17 - 00;27;16;23
Sean Duggan
You know, a part of the humanities program is like you have to become fluent in a second language. So I was like, Hey, you know what? This feels like the right thing. And honestly, from that point on, I went up on studying Spanish, going to study abroad in the University of Salamanca, and, you know, hey, that was that was a huge impact on me, you know, from, you know, just I love that the history aspect of humanities, you know, you can kind of get a sampling of a wide range of subjects and also just, you know, appreciation of like learning a second language.

00;27;16;26 - 00;27;37;08
Sean Duggan
It was it was great. I think, you know, my humanities background here is, you know, been huge. I also was involved with the radio station. I think I see Lisa Carroll Tremblay this weekend. I think she's going to be at the reunion. I was I was potentially maybe the worst deejay ever. Dom's history. I remember I would just get calls.

00;27;37;10 - 00;27;55;11
Sean Duggan
It's dead air again. And I'm like, okay, I'll give back on. My technical prowess was not great, and I didn't really do the serious prep, but I love that had the chance. I was living in Joe's hall and so I got to be on the air, which is super fun because I love music. So I'd say those two things were great.

00;27;55;11 - 00;28;26;06
Sean Duggan
And also just the community here at Providence, I'm a huge I'm very excited about the English and Bath area starting right now. So yeah, I loved yeah, it was great experience, great, great school. And I also just I think, you know, I'm curious about stuff. You know, I, I always want to kind of be on the learning, you know, end of things and like you know, and this was a great environment just to kind of explore and kind of, you know, pursue curiosities and humanities.

00;28;26;06 - 00;28;27;02
Sean Duggan
That was great.

00;28;27;04 - 00;28;40;10
Liz Kay
So if you think back to your experience with the documentary, are there any experiences that you had as an undergrad that you feel like you drew upon for the film? You know, not the technical, not your experiences in the basement of Saint Joe's with the two?

00;28;40;12 - 00;29;19;09
Sean Duggan
It was no, I think, you know, the stuff I drew upon. Whereas like, you know, you do the research, you know, on this, like, you know, it's like I think when I was studying, you know, history here, you know, I remember like, you know, I think Western Civ, which is, you know, was a big part of, you know, going to Providence is, you know, I think that that kind of teaches you a you know, prior to really, you know, studying Western Civ, you can think of subjects as they, you know, each is its own island.

00;29;19;11 - 00;29;40;03
Sean Duggan
And, you know, I think Western civ forces you to think that. No, it's like everything's cohabitating. And it was like, you know, and, you know, like that's kind of like I think it's still the way I think. Like I like, I love like, following like media, like, I'm like very curious about, hey, like, why is that affecting this?

00;29;40;05 - 00;30;01;20
Sean Duggan
Why is this trend pushing that? It's like and also like, yeah, when I was in the film, it's like that that interplay of history, you know, economics, you know, a changing culture, like all of those things, music, you know, it's like, you know, here is like a very, you know, somewhat repressive Catholic culture dominating like the Republic of Ireland.

00;30;01;23 - 00;30;37;06
Sean Duggan
And then, hey, they're bringing in surf music. And then there's like, you know, rock music's breaking out up against traditional music. It just I loved, you know, I still like, you know, I felt like that was the great thing about the project, which I didn't get tired of. I, you know, kind of, you know, films are a lot of work, but know, it was I felt very privileged to be able to kind of live in that world and kind of escape, you know, whether I was in my edit suite or something like escaping to that time and place kind of seeing that kind of going into that voyeuristic way back into that world.

00;30;37;06 - 00;30;38;01
Sean Duggan
It's fun.

00;30;38;03 - 00;30;40;09
Liz Kay
Definitely just watching the threads of everything.

00;30;40;09 - 00;30;41;16
Sean Duggan
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

00;30;41;16 - 00;30;48;01
Liz Kay
Picked up in and stuff. So I'm curious about your path after PC. How did you find your way from humanities to advertising?

00;30;48;04 - 00;31;16;03
Sean Duggan
So I graduated Providence and you know, after, you know, the one thing I did was I was study abroad in Spain and my dad was very much, you know, he he kind of encouraged me. This is pre this is really dating myself pre EU But he was like, you know what you should get your European EU passport you know an Irish passport because I think this EU thing could be a thing.

00;31;16;05 - 00;31;41;03
Sean Duggan
And so he encouraged me and so he did the paperwork for me, which I'm eternally grateful for. And, you know, after that I was like, I'm going to go live abroad in Ireland. I went over to Ireland with a fellow classmate, Emmett Christie, who unfortunately is not going to be here this weekend. And I think I handed out one resumé in like a month and a half, the lot of Guinness, a lot of traveling around and then, you know, wound up back in New Jersey.

00;31;41;05 - 00;32;03;09
Sean Duggan
You know, first job I wound up getting was, you know, my first job, frankly, I was like trying to figure stuff out. I worked in Food Town in my home town of Westfield, a point of pride of four years of college, of my parents. Like, I think they're Szekely Probably you get a lower profile job show that, you know, this is what you're doing.

00;32;03;12 - 00;32;23;18
Sean Duggan
But what happened was I wound up. I was just like, Hey, if I'm going to be home for a while, I'm like, I'm not going to search for job. I got to work. I've always kind of like been that mindset of like, Hey, you got work. But I wound up kind of falling into I studied economics also here, and I had a loose sense of, hey, maybe banking or something.

00;32;23;20 - 00;32;46;15
Sean Duggan
And I kind of wound up fortunately through basketball, quite frankly, because I played a lot of basketball. And this one guy was like, Hey, you should drop your resume to this guy. And I wound up working at a brokerage firm, getting into a training program at a brokerage firm, and the brokerage firm was in Jersey City, and it was early days of online brokerage.

00;32;46;18 - 00;33;32;29
Sean Duggan
So literally the first emails I ever did was called the PC Financial Network, which would eventually become E-Trade. I was you know, I had to learn the brokerage business and like, you know, I got the whole financial services like a series 764, I think it was, or something. And then, you know, it was a great opportunity just to get skills business skills and, and also like yeah, like learn the financial aspect of like, you know, just savings important and the thing that was fascinating about it for me personally was I was at this early stage, I was at a financial company, but within media and early online, like that, the service was available on Prodigy

00;33;33;02 - 00;34;04;16
Sean Duggan
and then we saw that they were going to add a second service, this thing called America Online. And then the day it went live, it crashed. It was like, Why we do something with these guys? They seem like they're going to go out of business. But, you know, to kind of see all of a sudden, like as we started, you know, the World Wide Web sort of launching, like I was fascinated, okay, the brokerage side of the business wasn't setting my world on fire in terms of curiosity, but I was like, really interested about, like all these, you know, this new world of media.

00;34;04;16 - 00;34;23;07
Sean Duggan
And like, also I could find anything like Get Out music lyrics, you know, it's like it was just it was a great experience. And then what I did was the other thing that was great about that program, they they had a really good tuition reimbursement program. So my other brother Brian encouraged me. He goes, Hey, you're in your twenties.

00;34;23;08 - 00;34;44;04
Sean Duggan
Most of your free time. You're going to bars in Hoboken. You know, why don't you just get your MBA at night? And so I went to Fordham at night. I did my MBA, but with an eye that, hey, I didn't have a lot of. I did econ here, but not really business classes. So I did marketing, accounting, things that I never got to hear while I was doing humanities.

00;34;44;07 - 00;35;07;23
Sean Duggan
And Fordham is great. I have a real love in my heart for Fordham. And what happened was, while there, I started realizing that I'm going to use this as a pivot out of brokerage to media, which which is what I was curious about. By then I had been reading about it and like seeing it. This is the thing I like when I pick up the Wall Street Journal or the paper out, I want to learn about like who owns who Disney.

00;35;07;23 - 00;35;32;09
Sean Duggan
It's like, it's fascinating to me. So I actually went up working for the head of the media department, a guy named Dr. Ever Dennis, who I'm still in touch with. He hired me as a grad assistant and I worked for him and I did work for WFUV, which is the NPR affiliate of Fordham Radio, which was, you know, I did a project for them.

00;35;32;09 - 00;35;55;25
Sean Duggan
And then at the end of my MBA, I was interviewing with AT&T, HBO, but they were like financial jobs. And I would have been like on the spreadsheets. And a friend who in the office who wound up actually marrying a pissy grad, he was like, You know what? You should work for a few vig because you love that station, you love the music.

00;35;55;25 - 00;36;13;24
Sean Duggan
It it is a great station. And he knew me and I was like, Oh, God, It's a typical move you go to like MBA and you take a pay cut. But, you know, it was absolutely the right move. I worked in NPR, worked for them for about two years, and it was great. It was you know, I love the station.

00;36;13;24 - 00;36;51;16
Sean Duggan
I still love the station. Got exposed to the NPR world. And then, you know, from that point, like streaming was taking off. And then at that point, ABC was starting to launch, like their streaming networks. And then, you know, looking at my digital experience from this brokerage background on the radio, I kind of leverage that into ABC and you know, from there really just, you know, had a you know, it was very much is funny how like that one job of like kind of parking financial aside for a minute to kind of hey, this is the one that feels right kind of put me on the track for media and then I, you know, basically

00;36;51;16 - 00;37;17;28
Sean Duggan
worked in media and advertising for the last, you know, 20 years or so. And so, yeah, it's been fun. It's definitely I it's funny, you work harder, but I enjoy it. It's been fun. It's been a really fun, you know, career to be in because, I mean, obviously, I'm passionate about, you know, film and TV music to kind of see and be on the business side of it has been also kind of fun, too.

00;37;18;00 - 00;37;21;07
Liz Kay
So what's next for you? You have another documentary in the works.

00;37;21;07 - 00;37;55;27
Sean Duggan
So yeah, I'm starting to work on well, first I got a I'm Sirius XM number one. That's where my paycheck comes from. So I got to go find wi fi and do some work on a proposal this afternoon. But no, I'm starting to you know, there's been interest in potentially adapting the film into a scripted story. So, you know, I'm talking to, you know, production company about that and then, you know, honestly know some other stories that I've been working on early stages of a potential documentary projects.

00;37;56;00 - 00;38;14;08
Sean Duggan
And, you know, I never intended to direct this. You know, I had a director attached originally, so kind of looking also at just producing opportunities. Yeah. So it's like, you know, nothing firm yet, but yeah, I'm excited. My mind is I'm, I'm excited for. What's next?

00;38;14;10 - 00;38;18;25
Liz Kay
So I have to ask you mentioned series. How did you balance this with your day job.

00;38;18;28 - 00;38;21;04
Sean Duggan
It was you know.

00;38;21;06 - 00;38;22;11
Liz Kay
It's three years It was.

00;38;22;17 - 00;39;00;04
Sean Duggan
Yeah we probably all end with COVID, you know, a little over. It was, you know, it's just quite frankly, it was a lot of like, you know, the good news about working on this Irish project is like I would get up early riser generally, you know, I would get up and work from like, you know, five on I while Irish time was kind of going and then and then at night it was like a lot of it there And then like during the day you know it was funny you know, it's like I really kept it to a very small circle of folks planned the tight I'll keep it a secret, you know, until, like,

00;39;00;04 - 00;39;18;15
Sean Duggan
I was positive this was going to get finished, you know, because, you know, in projects like this, it's like, you know, there's ebbs and flows. You know, there was points where it was moving really fast in the beginning and then I got to a creative block where I was like that the storyline is not coming together, you know.

00;39;18;17 - 00;39;40;07
Sean Duggan
So I put it aside almost for like 12 months at one point. And then I started thinking of moving some plot points around and then it really clicked. So, you know, when I, you know, for balancing it, I really didn't share it publicly till I had done an edit at the film myself. I kind of learned through LinkedIn learning shout out.

00;39;40;08 - 00;40;12;12
Sean Duggan
I don't know if they're sponsor of the podcast, but but they, you know, LinkedIn learning pretty phenomenal. Like I learned how to edit, very basic. I'm not an editor by any means, but you know, I was able to do an edit of the film and Avid and then once I saw that, I shared it with some people who who's a who would not be like family and friend feedback that would be honest feedback And I got the notes back I got were generally positive but you know want Sabeen who is my producer, she was like, This is great, really good arc, but you are going to bring on a real editor, right?

00;40;12;14 - 00;40;29;18
Sean Duggan
And at that point I had to kind of not make it a secret because I was like, also, it had been pretty much self-funded up to that point. And then I was like, okay, this is the other test. It's like, if I'm going to do more of these, it has to actually stand on its own. So I did a crowdfunding campaign and I really had to let people know like my bosses.

00;40;29;18 - 00;40;47;25
Sean Duggan
Now I heard about it and that was a little bit harrowing. I'm like, How are they going to take this? But, you know, I but the other crowdfunding campaign went well. I was able to bring on an editor in New York, Jake Cooper, great editor. And yeah, we cranked it out and then yeah, it was it was great, you know, finished.

00;40;47;25 - 00;41;05;03
Sean Duggan
But it was, you know, I'd say your question was, how did you do it? Just a lot of like, okay, this is what I got to get done today. You know, Now, not kind of like looking at how high like I have to climb to get this thing finally done. It was like, okay, today I have to get this archive footage cleared.

00;41;05;04 - 00;41;25;10
Sean Duggan
And it was like this. Today I have to find out if Van Morrison is going to let us do the song because he does not let a lot of people use his music. And I was working on my music supervisory team and they were like, It was the last thing of the film. And it was like, Hey, like, just don't get your hopes up on the scene because and it's like, Hey, we're not going to use this music.

00;41;25;10 - 00;41;47;07
Sean Duggan
We're not going to mention the Van Morrison It doesn't make sense. And I remember being in my garden in Brooklyn and like I saw that text cleared and it was like out. But yeah, he knew the subject, so it was. But yeah, it was like a lot of that. But the next project will have to be different, you know, It was, it was great for the first project and, you know, and also a tremendous learning experience.

00;41;47;07 - 00;41;50;12
Sean Duggan
So I'll keep you posted on how the next one goes.

00;41;50;12 - 00;41;51;18
Liz Kay
And so you got your feet wet.

00;41;51;21 - 00;41;52;20
Sean Duggan
Yeah, totally.

00;41;52;24 - 00;42;00;07
Liz Kay
Total play on words, but yes, exactly. So tell can you give us a plug? Where can people watch Keep it secret.

00;42;00;10 - 00;42;23;23
Sean Duggan
So in the US right now. Yeah. Go into YouTube. It was released by the channel, which is part of a lot of the team from GBH Boston, which I was delighted that they released it. So they have the the US public media rights, but it's actually available on YouTube so you can type in, keep it a secret film in North America.

00;42;23;26 - 00;42;46;04
Sean Duggan
It'll come out in Ireland next month and on on RTV, which is public television, Ireland. And then, you know, I'm still working on Australia and a few other countries that have expressed interest. So but yeah, here in the US it's go to the either PBS or, you know, World Channel and you can see the film that's available right now.

00;42;46;06 - 00;42;48;26
Liz Kay
China, it's been wonderful chatting with you today. Thanks so much for joining us.

00;42;48;26 - 00;42;50;26
Sean Duggan
Great chatting with you, Les. Thanks.

00;42;50;28 - 00;43;01;06
Liz Kay
Subscribe to the Providence College podcast in all the usual places, including iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Google Play and Spotify, as well as your smart speaker. If you like what you hear, please review and share with others. Thanks for listening and go Friars.