00;00;00;08 - 00;00;19;19
Liz Kay
Hello and welcome to the Providence College Podcast. I'm your host, Liz Kaye, and I'm joined by producer Chris Judge of the Class of 2005 here in the Providence College broadcast. We bring you interesting stories from the Friar family. This week, we're joined by Kelly Russo Cullen, who graduated from Providence College in 2000. She started out as a realtor and later became a real estate instructor and a certified real estate mediator.

00;00;20;05 - 00;00;39;09
Liz Kay
Cohen then spent nearly a decade as vice president of a title and closing company before founding one of her own. COHEN Closing in title, now has five locations in New Hampshire and Maine. In 2021, the New Hampshire Business Review named Cohen and her company a Business Excellence award winner in the real estate and construction category. Kelly, thanks so much for joining us.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Thank you for having me on site to be here.

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Liz Kay
So how did you get started in real estate?

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Great question. So my mom has actually been around the state for a very long time. She sold real estate when my brother, sister and I were little. And then she moved into the teaching aspect of real estate. And she currently owns a real estate school. So that's for folks to take a course, take a test and then get their license.

00;01;07;27 - 00;01;28;00
Kelly Roosa Cohen
And then she, up until recently on scaling back in retirement and she was teaching some real estate education, a senior classes. So I sort of started we always joke around that my sister and brother and I only top real estate, you know, all they ever do the house. It's like we didn't read Goodnight Moon. We read this like big real estate textbook, right?

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Like we do all the lingo. So it was pretty just sort of an easy transition for my brother sister to at least get a sense. We didn't necessarily know what would do with that, but mobile and I always advocated that having a real estate license was whether or not you were using it to sell real estate was something that would be really important.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Whether you were going to buy a house one day or just understand the real estate market, the financial institutions and sectors. But interestingly enough, when I was at Providence and I worked to create a buyer program through the Outreach Community Project down in Providence, there was a downtown. There was a group that had folks coming in and out just to learn different things.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
There was a financial advisor that was talking about balancing a checkbook, and I was able to work on a buyer program, what to know about the real estate market. And my mom was certainly instrumental in helping me with that. And so there has been a little bit of a taste of it and enough that I knew that it was something I wanted to do something with.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
So I started selling real estate as a as a licensed broker, and then quickly realized that my brain is a lot more than like a black and white, right? Like, I see things as right and wrong sometimes to a fault. Yes. My kids. I don't love the gray area, like living in the gray area and brokerage and real estate.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
There is a lot of gray area. What's going to happen in a transaction? What will the seller think? What will the buyer think? What decisions will they make? And when you're in that brokerage set, that platform that just didn't work a lot for my personality, my brain and the title part of it and the closing and the settlement are So that's the part where you're finished through the transaction and you're now signing all the paperwork.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Right. So myself and my company are the ones that handle all of that, people preparation and the actual closing experience and all of that is very black and white. It's like your titles clear which titles coincide and close. This is your interest rate. This is about your interest. And and I hadn't realized a lot of that with my role model.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
It was too late for my degree and working and doing license school for her four years on and then I worked for a local title company for ten years, a fantastic company that was affiliated with a large real estate company. And for ten years I loved it, enjoyed it and learned so much about it. But I always felt like maybe there was more that I could do on my own.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
And, you know, I can bet sometimes when you're making a lot of decisions, you want to make sure that you know, the decisions that you're making are all the ones that you would implement, that you would decide. And I sort of had this itch to want to maybe do something beyond just the company in which I was working.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Right. So my husband and I, he works for Santos Corporation. They sell luxury items like maps and mops and toilet paper and bathroom products and uniforms. So he had quite a busy, busy schedule, traveled quite a bit. And our sons were three and five at the time. And I always sort of said, you know what? As much as I'd love to start a company and two small kids, I have a husband that travels.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
I want to wash my hair sometimes and maybe jump on the treadmill. So I just saw things in the cards for me. And then, you know, a couple of years of thinking that I. But you know what? How could I not start it? And I have so much of a love and desire for what we do. And why wouldn't I want to show my boys that you can, you know, work really hard and and have something that is yours.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
And the decisions that you make become become ones that you can be proud of. And the decisions that we're the ones that should have been made. You can make changes to it, right? It's something that you own. It's something that you can control. So I. 1215 I knuckle it.

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Liz Kay
Walk us through the evolution of your company and how it's grown.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Oh, my goodness. So the real estate market in the past eight years has been looney to Anvil. Okay, so the real estate market has been on fire, right? So which in some ways you would think that would be the most amazing thing ever. But that's also really tough to scale, especially when you're starting a business. And I've always been one that believes in smart growth because if you grow too quickly, too soon, then you've lost a lot of the foundation in which you built the company on originally, right?

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
So couple of two foundations and principles that I built this company on are a book one of the book is Raving Fans. It's a fantastic book that talks a lot about how just having good customer service is not enough anymore. You literally have to create raving fans, people that don't want to work with anybody else but you, and they want all their family friends to tell everybody about you.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Right? And you can't do that unless you have a core staff and team that abides by all those name. And then the next piece that I sort of worked with and really sort of hit hold for me is this principle called 212. It's a real skinny, thin book. You can read it in like 20 minutes. And then if you Google ten, 12 that there's a pretty cool video on it.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
I think the last time I looked, it's still the same video from like 1981. So it's grainy, the quality is terrible, but the message is awesome and it basically states that it's a 1012 principle. All right. So at 211 degrees, water is really hot. But then when you add steam, water boils it to 12. Right. So it's basically like taking a look at both your professional life and your personal life.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
What can you do in that one degree differential that takes yourself from hot water to boiling water? Right. What's that one degree difference that you can do in your personal life and you can do in your professional life that will get you to that extra degree. So everything I do at Cullen is founded on a principle of what's my too 12, right?

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
What are the 12 initiatives that I can create here? The company that my team can implement, they can get excited about. We can get to 12 awards. We talk about going to 12. Sometimes we go to 20. You know, it's it's it's a principle. The lifestyle, right? And through these 212 experiences we must create raving fans, right? So that's sort of been our our vision and our principle and from that I really believe that so much of the success of the company has grown from it.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Right? We have our our two main offices which are in Bedford, New Hampshire, and then on the Seacoast in Hampton, New Hampshire. And then we have three other satellite offices. So so five by total. And honestly, the office is opened out of the demand for folks that wanted to do closings with us. Right. When I talked before about smart growth, I'm just never the type of person that is going to, you know, like to seed, open up an office, put out a sign and be like, who wants to work with me?

00;08;26;20 - 00;08;47;00
Kelly Roosa Cohen
Right. That I think I'd be dry leaving and hiring. That would not work. I have to make sure that the foundations there and the demand is there and the wants there. So a lot of times I might rent like a suite or rent something very small. And just from the desire that originally occurred of folks wanting to work with us, see how that would grow.

00;08;47;00 - 00;09;03;02
Kelly Roosa Cohen
And from the growth, then I would, you know, staff in office and, and, and role from that office. So the organic growth and the natural growth I think is really important to the success of the business rather than the opposite. You trying to create that right.

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Liz Kay
And you describe some of the challenges you face as an entrepreneur.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Now.

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Liz Kay
Help them really tough.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
But I would say that there's there's different challenges on the gloves, right? So there are challenges where eventually there's challenges in the market. There's challenges of being a business owner in general. And then there's also challenges personally, right? So on a professional level, I think one of the biggest challenges for me is the pressure, right? There's the pressure that every decision I make not only affects myself and my family, but it affects the 40 people that work for me.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
It affects their families, it affects my clients bucks, my referral partners. So there is that pressure that I feel that I better make sure that what I'm doing is in the best interest of everybody, right, and in the best interests of the company. So, you know, you you face challenges, whether it's, you know, the world shutting down and COVID happening and people still need to learn, you know, figure out how to buy and sell their houses without actually physically being with each other.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Right. And in the Northeast, we do what's called face to face closings most often where you actually do meet buyers and sellers at a table and handle a close. And so that became really tricky to figure out, well, how are we going to do this? Are all not going to be in the same room, Right? So just being able to navigate through those market changes, industry changes, economy changes and just knowing the pressures that, you know, every time I go to bed, I'm very conscious of the fact that, you know, every decision I make not only affects myself, but everybody that works for me, that's basically counting on me to steer the ship and steer

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
it in the right direction. Right. So I think from a professional standpoint, that's one of the biggest challenges that never goes away, right? And it's always there. And then I think personally, it's being able to try to find that balance, right? Try to find the balance where you are taking care of yourself, that you are putting yourself first, both mentally and physically and spiritually and emotionally.

00;11;04;01 - 00;11;37;03
Kelly Roosa Cohen
Because, you know, if I'm not the best version of myself, I can't possibly lead the folks at Cullen. I can't possibly be the best mother. I want to be the wife. I want to be friend, sister, daughter. So I have to take care of myself and making sure that I'm staying into that right when I feel that I have just given too much and I'm not going back enough or recharging, I talk a lot with a team here about the need to recharge, the need to figure out what do you need to do to recharge and when are you in life in need of recharging.

00;11;37;03 - 00;11;47;00
Kelly Roosa Cohen
Right? So some weeks that balance is awesome. Some weeks I'm like, we are not doing well with that. So exam, that's always sort of like a checking neck.

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Liz Kay
I think your business is pretty interesting because it definitely has kind of diversified income streams. I mean, for example, your business offers those continuing education courses that you've offered. Was that kind of a priority from the start?

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
So I always loved the teaching part of that. I wanted to do in that buyer program that we did at Providence. I loved teaching for my mom and I've always had this need to sort of be in the know on education wise what's happening in our states, what's happening with legislation, what's happening with, you know, property owners and choices and land and development.

00;12;18;05 - 00;12;38;06
Kelly Roosa Cohen
So I've always had that desire to sort of be involved in that. And then I've always had a love of just education and collaborating and sharing that with others. So when I opened up Cohen, I knew I wanted to have some sort of an education component. So we are in we've had three offices since I opened in 2015, and in the first office we opened.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
It was a real small space, but it still had room for ten chairs in a classroom setting for students to come or see your classes. Because I knew right away that I wanted that to be a component of our brand and something that Cohen was really adamant about, which was providing educational opportunities for real estate agents as well as lenders to sponsor those classes to had one lot of conversations with real estate agents that are students there.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
So as we grew and we moved into a second office, the classroom grew to 25. As we saw the need and the desire and the success of the classes. And then now we're in our permanent space here building that that I bought right before the pandemic, not many people were buying commercial properties, but Kelly Cohen was nowhere is there.

00;13;25;21 - 00;13;49;15
Kelly Roosa Cohen
And now our classroom holds 50. So it's definitely been part of our part of our brand. We don't charge for the classes because what it what the class is designed to do is to provide an opportunity for me to teach based on things that are happening in the market, right? Timely information opportunities, whether it's a wire fraud, is the big one right now.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
It's horrifying how much on the broad is happening as it relates to wires. And obviously when you're doing a real estate transaction, there's quite a few funds that are transferred via wires. And so that's sort of something that I'm spending a lot of time education on. But the classes are designed for exposure, right? And marketing and advertising people to know who I am, who Cohen is, and what we provide for services and what they can expect if they chose to work with us.

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Liz Kay
Thinking about home buyers and home sellers, what are some of the biggest concerns that are that are facing these two different groups right now?

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Right, So it's been an interesting cycle and I always say cycle because that's exactly what we're at and it's another cycle right In the past, I would say maybe ten plus years, if you were in real estate, you did pretty well, right? The rates were pretty low. And in the past five years, they were really, really, really historically low.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
When COVID hit, there was a lot of we actually had a lot of buyers that were from, you know, Massachusetts and New York and Rhode Island and Connecticut all sort of migrating towards New Hampshire, southern Maine, all kinds of opportunity to work remotely. So have a choice of where you necessarily want to be. And so I think that there was so much activity and there's so much that was happening, there could have been this false thought that if you were in real estate and you were doing really well and that it was sort of an easier life than it actually really is.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Right, because real estate is basically connected to so many different aspects, whether it's the economy, housing market. And I think that the recent shift we've seen is a really tough one because the rates have been going up and the sellers are not selling properties. So there's a huge inventory shortage, not just in New Hampshire and Maine, in the States.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
I said, but the inventory shortage is nationwide. Jim just had Good Morning America said a huge segment on the lack of properties. And I actually showed you a graph of the different states and U.S. how many houses we need to build in order to keep up with the population and the growth of our country. I know New Hampshire stats in the next ten years.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
We need 61,000 properties to keep up with the growth. Otherwise we're going to lose our people. Right? So there's a huge inventory issue right now. And if you think about it, you've got a lot of buyers who are wanting to buy a house. A lot of that buying population are millennials that are looking to move forward with their lives and they cannot find anything to buy.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Right. So you have a lot of sellers that aren't necessarily selling right now, One, because they wish they had sold a year ago when the market was even higher. But they didn't. But they still think they can get that amount. They can't, so they need to come down lower or they have a two or 3% rate. And if they sell that property and they buy a new property, they're going up into the higher rates in which we have right now.

00;16;55;19 - 00;17;13;11
Kelly Roosa Cohen
So it doesn't make sense for them to sell and buy something. So we're kind of in like a standoff. It's almost like a football field with all the buyers of sand on one side and all the sellers are standing on the other side. Like when you're in dodgeball, like nobody's throwing the balls and you're just standing there. So something sort of has to give.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
It happened. There's been a lot of talk in many states about growth and development, and there's builders that want to build and they want to create affordable housing and an opportunity for folks to stay in the states in which they're currently residing in. But there's a lot of towns that have really strict and tough zoning and audiences. So for builders to be able to build something, it has to be something that makes sense, right?

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
And with the plastic materials and the cost of land, sometimes what they're given to build doesn't match up with the affordability of what that state can and really make work. So we're sort of at a standstill place. But it sounds doing but let me just say that I actually I welcome a little bit of a standstill. What I mean by that is through the past decade, if you were in real estate, like I said before, you were right.

00;18;09;25 - 00;18;34;03
Kelly Roosa Cohen
But that didn't mean that you were maybe doing an amazing job and it didn't mean that you really knew to stop. It could also just mean that there was a lot of tailwind that was helping everybody do well, right? Like I mentioned before, the lower rates. So now I feel like we've sort of reverted back in a good way to the way business should be done, right?

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
There's thoroughness, there's communication. When things were so busy, you know, I even joke around that like our email language changed, right? Instead of like and there's hope. You have a great day. Congratulations again on been purchased on attach to the buyer document that you need to review and signed for us. Please let us know if you have any questions right instead of try to do like let's see attached.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
Right. What is the job that's like that's not a great way to do business. And these are people's biggest investment of their lives. We need to be taking that with the utmost care and concern. And and I do feel like this shift and market is a value. And for me that goes back to my raving fan mentality and my two barb experience.

00;19;18;00 - 00;19;37;13
Kelly Roosa Cohen
And I do believe that in markets like this, that service matters even more than it ever did before. So the real estate agents and the loan officers, they don't have maybe ten and 15 closings a month like they might have had in years past. Maybe they have a two. Right. And that's their mortgage payment. That's search patterns, tuition payment.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
So all that matters even more to them than it ever had before. And I welcome that challenge because I think ten out of ten will crush it every time.

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Liz Kay
So what advice do you have for people looking to buy in the near future? What should they should they stick it out? Should they pulled out? What do you think?

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
I think they should stick it out. I think they should stick it out. I think that no matter what the economy, no matter what the market's happening, people like life act like life is happening in and you're not you could just halt your life and you can't just stop your life. But the reality of it is, as people are going to they're going to get married.

00;20;13;01 - 00;20;35;19
Kelly Roosa Cohen
If they're going to have children, they're going to grow their families, and then maybe on the not so exciting part, people are going to pass away, right? People go into assisted living. So there's still life that happens in any transition or cycle. So you just have to be more mindful of strategies and marketing and probably working with the right agent, working with the right loan officer, right.

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Kelly Roosa Cohen
I think we might go back to some traditional knocking on doors, writing letters. I love your neighborhood. I love your cul de sac, I love your street. My parents live two streets over. You're ever considering selling. Would you please give me a call? I think we're going to go back to a lot of like that, back to basics way of doing real estate.

00;20;54;14 - 00;21;18;02
Kelly Roosa Cohen
But I don't think anybody should. I don't go don't put up the white flag yet. I think that that we should stick it out and and growth is happening and development will happen and honestly, I think we're seeing, too, that there's a lot of millennials that are our biggest buying population right now, and a lot of them are living with their parents and their parents want them out of the house and they want them to involve their lives and have children and grandkids and all that.

00;21;18;02 - 00;21;35;18
Kelly Roosa Cohen
So you are seeing a lot of parents of adult children financially contributing to some of the home purchases and helping them to be able to, you know, become the winning bidder of the property and help with the increase in the rates or the appraisal gap. So nobody should put up a white flag. Now.

00;21;36;04 - 00;21;42;09
Liz Kay
I'm also curious what advice you would give to current PC students who are or young alumni who are interested in getting started in real estate.

00;21;43;16 - 00;22;07;07
Kelly Roosa Cohen
So I would say experience and learning and being a sponge, because a lot of times once you're in something, you are so focused on doing what you're in that you've sometimes missed the boat of learning what to do once you're in it, right? So I would say that, you know, when you're at PC has so many wonderful opportunities, right?

00;22;07;07 - 00;22;40;28
Kelly Roosa Cohen
Whether it's experiences, internships, work studies, any type of programs that you can get involved in that will give you some experience and insight into a field that you're looking to go into. And you can learn from that even before you actually step foot into that, right? So I think it's about mentorship, whether it's about finding folks that are doing something that you might be interested in and shadowing and being part of that and just getting as many life experiences outside of just the campus life to make sure that you're prepped and ready for that when you graduate.

00;22;41;11 - 00;22;52;27
Liz Kay
So this feels like a great transition to talking about your time in PC. So you were a public and community service studies major, but when you think back to your time in free time, what were some of those experiences you had that made an impact on you?

00;22;53;13 - 00;23;23;05
Kelly Roosa Cohen
Oh, so many. I think one of the biggest things was for me, the major itself was all about connections with the community and it was all about social aspects and cultural aspects and how we as current students can learn what is going on outside of our walls and campus and understand once we graduate, what's our role and how can we make a difference and what can we get involved in?

00;23;23;26 - 00;23;47;24
Kelly Roosa Cohen
And those sort of experiences for me were instrumental in me wanting to be a part of the, you know, whether it was the real estate world or some sort of community world where I was always involved in what was happening, right? I currently do a lot of charitable work. We do a lot of charity spotlights. So every two months we have a charity spotlight and usually it's a charity on one of the employees choice.

00;23;47;24 - 00;24;06;21
Kelly Roosa Cohen
I mean, it's very near and dear to them and it's something that we are heavily involved in. I think the Providence and that particular guidelines to it gives you that exposure where you might have to see through high school and you might not have seen through college. It allows you to be a little bit more mindful and insightful of what you want to do after.

00;24;07;15 - 00;24;33;08
Kelly Roosa Cohen
So that was incredibly beneficial for me. We did a a trip to New Orleans in my junior year with a group came from from the class and we painted an orphanage at Children's Ball in New Orleans. And I ended up loving Louisiana and New Orleans, and I moved there after I graduated with my PC roommate. Whether going to Tulane grad school, and I stayed down there for a couple of years before moving back.

00;24;33;08 - 00;24;50;04
Kelly Roosa Cohen
But it was experiences like that that allowed you to connect with other people outside of just the world in which you're living in as well as see, you know, socially and culturally and worldwide. What are some of the issues out there and what are some of the things that I can help to be involved in, in my own community?

00;24;50;15 - 00;24;54;01
Liz Kay
What are some of the courses you took as an undergrad that you feel would help you in your work today?

00;24;55;05 - 00;25;34;14
Kelly Roosa Cohen
I think sociology, that is probably one of the biggest ones. I felt like there's a lot on any of the classes for me that were liberation, a bit placid, that were broken up into groups that says that we had segments of books that we read or all these things, and then we would talk about them and you learn and you in, you were learning from people's different perspectives, but you also learned how to appreciate other people's point of use, which I think is huge in graduating and going into business and understanding how to work alongside different people and understand and respect different people coming from different walks of life.

00;25;34;19 - 00;25;45;07
Liz Kay
So we were talking in March, which is Women's History Month, So we've been asking all of our podcast guests, podcast guests about the women who inspired them in their lives. How about you've come to the top of the list.

00;25;45;23 - 00;26;15;03
Kelly Roosa Cohen
And represent would be my mom watching her juggle the life of real estate as well as an educator and a teacher. I remember so vividly that when she started to open up a school and she was going to teach people to get their license, she did it in our kitchen area and we had this little like island with four bar stools, and one of the stools wasn't quite right and she couldn't figure out how to like, just take a stool and tight knit.

00;26;15;03 - 00;26;32;27
Kelly Roosa Cohen
So she took that one away. And instead of having four students, she only had three to start since she was afraid that somebody would sit on that school and get hurt, which is totally my mother. So she had three stools and I remember that she had three students for quite some time. And then she moved into the dining room because she had like six students that now were in the dining room.

00;26;32;27 - 00;26;48;11
Kelly Roosa Cohen
And I just remember being like, Oh my gosh, she moved out of the kitchen. She's in the dining room. You know, we had to be upstairs while she was teaching. And that just felt like. So she she truly grew her business by 50%, moving into the dining. Right. And then from there, you know, she moved into real estate offices that she's taught in.

00;26;48;11 - 00;27;13;24
Kelly Roosa Cohen
But, you know, now she teaches her her her weekend at southern New Hampshire, you know, with hundreds of people all packed in their auditorium. So just watching that evolution in how to grow a business and how to grow a business with integrity and honesty and professionalism was incredibly impactful, probably more so that I can put in words all I watching her be really good.

00;27;13;24 - 00;27;16;19
Liz Kay
But look, Ali, it's been such a pleasure talking to you. Thanks so much for joining us.

00;27;16;29 - 00;27;18;02
Kelly Roosa Cohen
Thank you for having me.

00;27;18;02 - 00;27;44;25
Liz Kay
This so, so far, subscribe to the Providence Call podcast in all the usual places, including iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Google Play and Spotify, as well as your smart speaker. If you like what you hear, please review and share with others. Thanks for listening and go Friars.