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Michael Hagan
Hello and welcome to the Providence College Podcast. I'm Michael Hagan from the Class of 2015, and I'm joined by producer Chris Judge from the Class of 2005. Our guest today is Daniel Guerrero, a senior from the Class of 2023 who recently returned from a semester abroad at the University of Oxford in the United Kingdom. Daniel is from Lawrence, Massachusetts.

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Michael Hagan
He majors in philosophy and creative writing, and he has recently completed a book of short fiction. Daniel, thanks for joining us.

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Daniel Carrero
Happy to be here.

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Michael Hagan
So, Daniel, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you decided to study philosophy and creative writing.

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Daniel Carrero
Yeah, so it pretty much just starts at a very young age. I grew up around a lot of hip hop influenced people. I grew up around a lot of people who were interested in music in general, and I think music was the initial introduction. Primarily, rap music. Around 13, I committed myself to being a SoundCloud rapper. I did that for about six years and was like, I'll go to college, but along the way, you know, I met a lot of different people, got involved in a lot of different groups, got involved in a lot of different organizations.

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Daniel Carrero
I also did a lot of youth activism, so that brought me to a place called Elevated Thought. I worked for them for a few years, besides being a member as a student there. But anyways, they were the real introduction to philosophy and they were also a deeply creative space. So we were always writing poetry. There was always art on the walls, people doing art, people doing different types of social activism, things like that.

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Daniel Carrero
And, you know, I was an employee for them during my gap year and I graduated high school 2018, and it's one now close to 23. And during that gap year, you know, I did a lot of different things for them and really found sort of a niche in doing different types of like philosophical workshops and doing different types of creative writing workshops.

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Daniel Carrero
So, you know, when I got to college, it was pretty easy to pick my majors and stuff.

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Michael Hagan
So you came in declared philosophy.

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Daniel Carrero
So I came into creative writing. I was kind of different philosophy because I had a lot of trepidations. Doing philosophy kind of in real life is different than doing it in academia. And I wasn't sure it was going to be like. But I took my first philosophy class. I think it was an intro to philosophy. It was during the summer I did a program called the Fire Foundations here at ABC, and it was so hard.

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Daniel Carrero
I got an I got a B-plus, and the students kind of stood there at the table and at the head of the table and, you know, talked for 3 hours. And it was my brain boiled for those 3 hours every every time we sat in a classroom. But I walked out and I'm like, I really I still really like this, you know what I mean?

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Daniel Carrero
So it was one of those things that despite the struggle, I still really found joy in it, you know, and found, you know, that reward, that simulation. So yeah.

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Michael Hagan
I'd say if you can listen to something for 3 hours continuously and still be interested in it afterwards, I mean, that might be the discipline for you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so tell me, how how did your academic path you came in declared creative writing, you picked up philosophy. Tell me a little bit about how that path led you to Oxford.

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Daniel Carrero
Oh, Lord, yeah. So I guess I started back in high school. I was sort of an average student, I think, and I didn't really try very hard and I still did pretty well. And then I got the PC also kind of said it was a low performing school. So, you know, our resources were low. Things were kind of weird, you know what I mean?

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Daniel Carrero
So when we got to PC, it was felt unprepared. But also I felt like I had a certain aptitude. And, you know, I got here and it was very validating, it was very supportive. And I think that was instrumental. The support systems, you know, and often just feeling comfortable being able to reach out to my professors. And I remember like first day of late, 175, I emailed Professor after class and I'm like, Yeah, grab my pants, dude.

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Daniel Carrero
I don't know what was going on. These, these people seem so much smarter than me. And then after a while, I was like, Oh, no, we're all kind of, you know, lost in ignorance, you know, and just trying to figure it out. But, you know, it's different. I never had anybody I knew in my immediate family like I had having many families have gone to college.

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Daniel Carrero
But it's it's a family relationships. We're sure we'll leave it at that. So I never really got an impression of a college was like you know what I mean? So I was petrified and you know, but the support, the validation, I found myself climbing sort of every time I had a target. I'm like, okay, I can I'm a little bit higher now.

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Daniel Carrero
And little by little, my sophomore year, I'm like, I think I can aim at Oxford. And I was, you know, my guts were turning. I was kind of like, actually, no, I'm lying. I guess we're not turning. I was not nervous at all because I also didn't think I was like, I know that. I didn't think I was going to get in, but it was sort of like, this is one of those things where it goes in, it goes in, you know?

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Daniel Carrero
I mean, you've got to live with whatever result comes about it because I didn't really know where I was as a student. Sure. And, you know, got the support I got in and I was like, Oh, crap, okay, now we got to do this at some point, you know, I was even like, I don't want to go. And then I was like, Shut the hell up, come on.

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Daniel Carrero
And you know, I went, I think in my gut, I really wanted to see my ceiling, you know, see, see what? The highest mountain I could climb. And that was, you know, from from where I come from, my city. I don't think anybody's ever gone to Oxford, you know, I mean, and I have a lot of friends. I haven't even gone to college, you know what I mean?

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Daniel Carrero
So it's very rewarding, you know what I mean? Yeah.

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Michael Hagan
Well, it is. I mean, to to study in Oxford for to study abroad in Oxford is a remarkable achievement. I mean, they they don't just let anybody in. It's a it's it's really rigorous and difficult to, ah, to achieve it in the first place. And even it's hard once you're there. I mean tell us a little bit about, you know, the mode of instruction is so different.

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Michael Hagan
I mean, tutorials versus courses. Tell tell us a little bit about that distinction.

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Daniel Carrero
Yeah, yeah. The tutorial system was incredible. The I cherish the one on one interaction with the professor even more than I did before, because just that one hour a week or that one hour every two weeks with the, um, we call them tutors, you know, call them professors. And we also have, we call mother first names. You know, it's not doctor whatevers.

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Daniel Carrero
You know, Andre or Thomas or whatever, you know. I mean, it's cool and but you just develop so much the, the, the amount of growth, you know, it it's really like an apprenticeship almost. You know, I think that's that's the most that's the best comparison to make. Um, but yeah, I think I was terrified. First day my, my philosophy tutor was an extremely confrontational man.

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Daniel Carrero
We sit down for the first time and he's just throwing philosophy at me, words like analytical and continental. And I'm like, and this means, dude. And then, you know, kind of just figure it out from there. And I ended up doing really good, so, you know, I'm proud of that. Yeah.

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Michael Hagan
For those who are unfamiliar, the tutorial system in Oxford, it's it's just a different approach to teaching where once a week students will meet with one on one, like Daniel said, with a tutor, and they'll present an essay that they've developed over the course of the last week based on a whole list of reading and present that essay to the tutor, which can be a harrowing experience because.

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Daniel Carrero
You know.

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Michael Hagan
They'll lay into you, right?

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Daniel Carrero
Yeah, they will. They will. I eventually like got them on my he got I got him on my good side or whatever. The first paper I wrote kind of really impressed him from then on. It was a good tone I think. Um, but I remember other students, you know, and like we all got here and stuff, but other professors, other tutors like yeah, it was just malarkey.

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Daniel Carrero
I don't know. I can't really describe it. It's you kind of have to develop a certain like not thick skin, but you get you to. It's weird. I don't know.

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Michael Hagan
So what was one or two of the most interesting things that you read or studied for a tutorial?

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Daniel Carrero
Yeah, but I do want to backtrack. I say sure. The tutorials and the tutors are also very wonderful and polite and gentle people. I don't want to give the impression that they're they're all hard asses and stuff like that. But I was like, Can you repeat the question?

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Michael Hagan
Yeah. What were some interesting texts or, you know, just what was the most interesting text or idea or thinker that you encountered in your tutorials?

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Daniel Carrero
Yeah. Yeah. So the philosophy was the biggest one. I think that, you know, I really went there. We did Kierkegaard and we did Wittgenstein and you know, I already knew about Kierkegaard. He's kind of one of those two that like people like to quote in pop culture without much reference. And most of the time it's, you know, but we can find is like a little more obscure in popular consciousness.

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Michael Hagan
Hard to drop Dickens down quotes in casual conversation.

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Daniel Carrero
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really hard to draw from, you know. So to find was, I think, the most, you know, influential. He was the biggest inspiration. He is sort of what I want to pursue in grad school. I continue researching him and, you know, writing papers on that. And I had always kind of been interested in what he discusses in language mind, but I've always kind of had a sociological perspective.

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Daniel Carrero
I was a sociology major for like a month and I was a semester, but I took the social class, then I did the stats class and and I'm like, Yeah, this is a for me, you know, I'm a do the the, the word stuff with philosophy and creative writing. But, you know, I am, you know, very aware of, you know, my sociological studies, my presence.

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Daniel Carrero
You know, it's one of those things where, you know, from where I'm from, it just you're constantly made aware of it. And then, you know, you get into this sort of work. I run into social justice stuff. It's just kind of like you just learn more stuff. So one thing that I've always been curious about in that respect, you know, to our social constructs, our social reality, what it means to, you know, be someone to be a race, to be a gender or and the third to have money.

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Daniel Carrero
What is, what does that look like in terms of our language? Um, and yeah, that was sort of it because we use our word so like freely and casually from time to time and you know, they're very powerful, you know, in our minds. So to read Vic and Stein, he opened up a whole new door and a whole new way of looking at words, looking at the way words are connected to the mind.

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Daniel Carrero
Yeah. You know, and I've always just had that fascination for words, you know. So, yeah, it was they can start. I'm kind of obsessed right now, you know what I mean? I got Ludvig. Yeah.

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Michael Hagan
So how would you describe the city of Oxford to people who have never been there?

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Daniel Carrero
Um. Wow, it's a very old, but very quaint and not the right word. It can be different things, a different day, but most of the time I think you had downtown. It's but like I think High Street, right? It's bustling. The busses everywhere. People, you know, in and out of cafes at the at the little tables, you know, journaling and smoking, cigarets and, you know, very different culture of the right.

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Daniel Carrero
And, you know, I think the sights are very beautiful. The the the churches, the, um, the cathedrals. I think it was the same thing, you know, Christchurch was I snuck in there once and I'm gone now, so they can't do anything about it. But you know, they have a lovely, you know, you know, setting. And one thing I really appreciated that was different was sort of the blend of like urban, but I think natural environment.

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Daniel Carrero
You know, I could walk down the city block forever, how long? And eventually there'll be a little entrance to a park. Um, and, you know, coming from for a lot more or less like big cities, you know, there was just not as much nature, I guess, you know, and I found that very because the city stuff can get a little stressful, the school stuff can get a little stressful.

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Daniel Carrero
And when I went out to London, you know, it was even like a little more hectic, less likely than New York, which I appreciated. But it was still nice to be able to just like kind of sneak away and everything was just silent for a moment.

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Michael Hagan
Yeah, you don't have to walk too far in Oxford to get to the countryside. Did you explore, like, Port Meadow and places like.

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Daniel Carrero
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was right. You know, you take a 20 or 30 minute walk, you know what I'm saying? You can take the the bus, go on a picnic with some friends. I found myself having a lot more free time than I think most than I think most people expected. Than I expected. You know what I mean?

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Daniel Carrero
So yeah.

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Michael Hagan
So what was a normal day like for you?

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Daniel Carrero
So granted, I'm like a very regimented individual. Sure, people think I'm a little crazy, you know, I don't think that's wrong. But, you know, I wake up very early, get my breakfast and go to work, you know, lunch break, do more work around like four or 5:00. I'm done for the day and then it's the days my out.

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Daniel Carrero
You know what I mean? Do whatever I want. Go hang out with friends, come to beach. That's that's really my day in two parts. And I try to keep it that way just because without that structure, stuff is like flying off the rails, you know what I mean? So yeah. And that was like my typical day in Oxford, you know.

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Daniel Carrero
But I'm always having contact with people, you know, always. That was the other thing, you know, you never had a lack of conversation at Oxford. The amount of people were interesting. Things to tell you is incredible. You'd be five feet away from, like an astrophysicist or something, you know what I mean at any given point. So.

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Michael Hagan
Yeah. So I actually when I was an undergrad, I was lucky enough to spend my junior year abroad in Oxford. And all everything that you're saying is resonating with me. I mean, this is it's it's how I remember it, too. And I just remember having these kinds of experiences where it's like a year ago, I never think I would be right here, whether it was competitively rowing on the river or whether it was going to a performance at a, you know, 17th century theater built by Christopher Wren or having a pint at a bar stool where J.R.R. Tolkien used to sit.

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Michael Hagan
You know, there were just all of these things where it's like never in a million years would I think I'd be here. Yeah. Did you have experiences like that where you just had to stop and say like, Wow.

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Daniel Carrero
Yeah, I think I think I sat on the same stool as President Clinton.

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Michael Hagan
And the Turf Tavern.

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Daniel Carrero
Yeah, I'm kidding. I don't think I did. But, you know, it's one of those things where it's like you have to really sit back into my history. There'll be different points in time where, you know, you're kind of just walking and then you stop and you look up and it's like, Holy crap, this thing is like 2000 years old.

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Michael Hagan
Providence College alums will be well familiar with the sound of lawn maintenance going on in the background. Those are the leaf blowers, you know, it's their first appearance of the fall. So part in the white noise, but we will press on. So did you travel at all around the UK or around Europe while you were there? I know you said you got to London and what was London like?

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Daniel Carrero
So unfortunately I didn't get to travel too much. I really only got to London. I was very I had travel plans to go to the continent. They went to write certain things and certain people fell out and whatnot and then eventually got to London. I ended up we kind of got this five week break in between or to terms, and I really just kind of hunkered down and finished writing my book.

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Daniel Carrero
I, I'd been working on it for two years and I'm like, I have all this free time. I'm kind of all this money people gave me to come here to just live, you know what I mean? So that's what I really did for those five weeks. But a lot of it was, I think just when I did go out to London, you know, I visited PC students, students doing what you call it on the set in London.

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Daniel Carrero
That's what it was people doing. So in London, I had some friends don't live in London, so we're not they went to Camden Town or whatever these places are called. But it was it was great. I really liked it, too. It was way cleaner than the New York subway have really appreciated that. But for the most part, I think I was in Oxford and I was just kind of hanging out with Oxford people, right?

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Daniel Carrero
Eventually, I think I should say I was with, you know, locals, you know what I mean? A lot of the time. So I kind of really got to know what like a life was like for some people in the UK, you know what I mean? And for me that was like really rich and really interesting. Yeah. You know, I found a lot of my friends like the close ones ended up being, you know, kind of just like me in America, you know, first generation immigrants, but just in another country.

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Daniel Carrero
And from another country, you know what I mean? But you know, the city life is so similar and, you know, all the the shenanigans, you know, as young men in those communities kind of get up to the assembly. So, you know, it was it was a lot of camaraderie, a lot of getting to know. I picked up a lot of UK slang and I'm saying that was my favorite part.

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Daniel Carrero
Learning how to talk, like to like the road van or whatever. Yeah.

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Michael Hagan
So you mentioned you just mentioned your book and you said you've been working on it for two years. You've recently finished it. It's a book of short fiction and you're in the process of trying to publish it. Tell us a little bit more about this project.

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Daniel Carrero
Yeah, yeah. So I actually got it started here at P.S.. I had been it's been a dream of mine to write a book for a long time, a mentor of mine here. He was a former dean. So I think I think I'll write a book for 27. And he was like, Why are you going away to 27? That's a dumb idea to start right now, but that's what I did.

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Daniel Carrero
So it was a long process. I had to figure out the story. I think that was like the first part, but once I kind of got a good idea going, it was going. The stories about 12 young men from my neighborhood and how we come to be men, you know, sort of giving a masculine perspective to life, you know, I think not that that's lacking.

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Daniel Carrero
You know, I'm a culture at the moment, but, you know, it's it's a weird time to be alive and just in general. But yeah.

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Michael Hagan
So masculinity coming of age, these are themes that you like to explore in your writing. What else, what what overall, what else do you like to explore in your writing?

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Daniel Carrero
So there's a lot of that. There's a lot of philosophy, a lot of sort of like existential questions. You know, every character is sort of going through some sort of existential crisis, whether it's, you know, a crisis of faith, a crisis of purpose, a crisis of identity, you know what I mean? So a lot of that stuff and then sort of the world in the background I think is, is really key.

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Daniel Carrero
Um, because it's a sort of a, it's a blend between an anthology and a novel, I guess, because it's a collection of short stories, but it all takes place in one specific setting. And there's one overarching theme and purpose. It's filled with biblical reference, you know, ancient Greek references, you know, Roman references. I kind of I was feeling my my education coming through for a moment and I think a lot of it.

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Daniel Carrero
But I also I grew up in a in a very religious context. It's quite a less religious perspective in my adult life, I think. But, you know, you can't shake that stuff. So right.

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Michael Hagan
Right now. So you were you were kind of getting at this a little bit, but say a little bit more about how philosophy influences your work as a creative writer, but also vise versa. How creative writing influences your work as a philosopher.

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Daniel Carrero
Yeah. Oh, crap. This is something I'm still trying to figure out, too, because it's a weird it's a weird philosophy is life in that, you know, every decision you make, we don't really like philosophy such a kind of an ambiguous word in the sense that everything everybody does is under the operation of some sort of philosophy. You know, when I do this, it's because I believe that, you know what I mean?

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Daniel Carrero
So when I write this, it's because I believe that, you know what I mean? Or I'm questioning this, I guess, you know, fiction is kind of like it's like a simulation for philosophy. You kind of get some characters, you get a setting, you get an idea, and you run them through the simulation and you don't really know the outcome until you write it.

00;21;03;06 - 00;21;28;11
Daniel Carrero
Right? You know what I mean? Then you kind of like, so this is what happens when we do this, you know? I mean, when we live life this way, you know what I mean? When we engage in stoicism, where we engage in, you know, nihilism or something like that, you know what I mean? But I think fiction plays into the philosophy in particularly the language.

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Daniel Carrero
You put words like pictures, you know what I'm saying? You put word together, you can't just find pictures in people's minds. And there's sort of like a whole section of philosophy dedicated to that, you know, that can sign and his sort of remarks on language and in mind and whatnot, you know what I mean? So it's still unclear to me totally.

00;21;50;06 - 00;22;16;05
Daniel Carrero
You know what I mean? I think that's part of the journey right now. It's trying to figure out kind of how the two things connect. But I think also fiction does make philosophy more digestible, you know, a little flaccid. Don't know how to write the terrible writers. I get really bored reading some of these guys, you know, I mean, in my column, the bullet points, even though, you know, there's there's importance to the nuance, you know, there's no denying that.

00;22;16;23 - 00;22;17;10
Daniel Carrero
But yeah.

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Michael Hagan
Yeah, it sounds like in your work, it sounds like you're writing your creative writing really kind of give space to explore, you know, what you're thinking about philosophically. But it also sounds like out of your creative writing, you know, out of that kind of experimental liminal space comes new philosophical ideas.

00;22;35;00 - 00;22;56;04
Daniel Carrero
Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. I would say definitely, but sort of because it's weird. Do you really get answers in philosophy? And that's because you never really get answers in life, right? You know what I mean? And that's why I like how no one book is kind of get the answer. This is something else to write, you know what I mean?

00;22;56;04 - 00;23;01;28
Daniel Carrero
You know something else? I think about? It's endless.

00;23;01;28 - 00;23;16;23
Michael Hagan
So back at college, back at Providence College, before going abroad and since even though I mean, you've only been back, we're as we're recording it is the beginning of the second week of school. But what kind of activities have you been involved in or are you getting involved in this year?

00;23;17;25 - 00;23;42;09
Daniel Carrero
So really focusing on bio believers of words on the president this year. So trying to, you know, uplift the club and have some good events, have some collaborations with some of the department. Well, right now we're planning on doing an event with well, I'm waiting on some contact, but I'm trying to get together an event for poetry, philosophy.

00;23;42;09 - 00;24;02;27
Daniel Carrero
We're putting together an event with American studies and creative writing, and we're going to do some workshop series next semester. We're going to be organizing that and then sort of the brunt of it, you know, and then obviously I got to write Curie, let it query letters, cover letters, you know, get these to publishers, to agents. And, you know, I think it's a very good book, I'll be honest with you.

00;24;03;18 - 00;24;14;26
Daniel Carrero
I hope it doesn't take long to get that going, you know, but also grad apps I'm currently applying to grad school and that's another hassle. So yeah.

00;24;15;14 - 00;24;26;27
Michael Hagan
So do you want to do it for grad school or are you interested in pursuing more like an MA in philosophy or like a creative writing degree, like an MFA? What are you interested in doing in grad.

00;24;26;27 - 00;24;29;12
Daniel Carrero
School or anything? I'm trying to go get my PhD.

00;24;29;19 - 00;24;30;14
Michael Hagan
Really write to AP.

00;24;30;27 - 00;24;51;14
Daniel Carrero
Yeah, yeah. Wow. I you know, I like I said, I figured out early on kind of what I want to do more and more or less like the just if I could kind of like teach and then write, that's a fantastic job and that's a wonderful occupation. That's kind of what professors do, you know what I mean? So I'm like, I can be a professor.

00;24;51;14 - 00;25;11;08
Daniel Carrero
And also, you know, when you're a professor, you are in a position to have more resources, have a little more authority. I know I have some professors on campus who, you know, use their positions in sort of different social activism courses and things like that or, you know, they get involved in the community in various capacities. You know, what I mean?

00;25;11;28 - 00;25;15;11
Daniel Carrero
So, you know, yeah, that's kind of the route I want to do it.

00;25;15;27 - 00;25;34;08
Michael Hagan
Well, Daniel, best wishes with that. I mean, that's a rigorous path, but it sounds like you're well cut out for it. So absolutely best wishes with with your future with your senior year. First of all, I mean, you've got this year ahead of you, but then with grad school after that and we wish you great success with those and in your career.

00;25;34;29 - 00;25;37;20
Michael Hagan
So thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. This would be great.

00;25;37;22 - 00;25;40;06
Daniel Carrero
Thanks. Thank you for having me around.

00;25;40;06 - 00;25;54;21
Michael Hagan
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