Hello and welcome to the Providence College podcast, I'm your host, Liz Kaye, and I'm joined by producer Chris Judge of the Class of 2005 here in the Providence College podcast, we bring you interesting stories from the fryer family.

This week we're talking with Anna O'Connell, member of the Class of 2012, after she graduated summa cum laude from PC with a degree in music education. The soprano and harpist set off for the University of Southern California, where she earned a master's degree in choral conducting.

She served as director of music for the Catholic Campus Ministry at Cornell University before leaving to pursue her doctorate in historical performance practice at Case Western Reserve University. O'Connell was recently awarded the Barbara Thornton Scholarship from Early Music America.

Anna, thanks for joining us and congratulations on your scholarship.

Thank you so much and thanks for having me, Liz.

So you clearly love music and specifically early music. How did this passion develop? Where did it start?

Oh.

Yeah. Providence College, I think. Katherine Dr. Gordon brought in her friends who play early music.

And.

She.

Taught me some harpsichord lessons.

And.

I was pretty much hooked. And there was especially a class that I took.

About, or maybe I even audited it.

But it was about singing early music.

And.

I just fell in love with the melodies, the stories.

The mythology behind it.

Yeah, it was something I really cultivated up.

Did you come to PC with the idea that you were going to study music?

Yeah, it.

Came as a music.

Education major for my undergrad.

And I was excited because at Providence, I can study voice and harp, which is also a thing I do.

And yeah, and.

B also in.

The.

Honors.

Program.

And that was.

Very formative, too.

For reading all of the mythology and history.

And then a lot.

Of early music draws upon those histories and those.

Texts.

In performances, the 16th and 17th centuries that are obsessed.

With.

Medusa and Achilles and all these characters that I write about in my soup class.

So where how did you start? With performance, with music performance, would you start out as a vocalist and did you or did you start as a harpist, which came first?

Yeah, I think I was singing in children's choirs and my.

Church growing up and.

Started taking piano lessons. My family took a trip to Ireland when I was little, maybe in sixth grade.

And everywhere we.

Went, there was pictures and sounds of harps and Irish folk music has got a lot of heart music.

In it.

And so a couple of years later, when I was in high school, my mom saw an ad in the newspaper Come Learn Harp, and so I started learning on a little therapy harp for there was a group that goes into hospitals and plays harps.

But they were teaching lessons to beginners. So I started off there and then I sort of veered.

Off into.

Giant concert pedal harps.

And yes, played.

The harp throughout high school and then a PC.

I started playing more harp. But in a kind of.

Pop music setting, so I started.

Playing, you know, the open Mike MacPhail's.

Or something like that.

And.

Jamming with other friends. Yeah.

So you were taking the harp through all of its like all iterations and applying it to all different musical styles? Yeah, yeah. And but that's not what you were playing when you were playing with the therapy group in high school, like you were playing mostly classical.

They were just teaching me how to play the instrument.

And then.

I quickly switched over to.

Like a pedal harp.

Teacher because I was I was in high school and then everybody else in the class was.

Like little.

five or six year olds or.

Something.

Or maybe ten year olds.

But I had.

Played piano growing up, so that.

Was already knew.

About music a little bit. So it was easier to go find a real quote.

Real harp teacher. I mean, I really enjoyed.

My lessons with the little harps that was great.

Wasn't not real.

As what I'm trying to say.

So when you were a PC, tell us about the music performance you did hear what, what, what types of ensembles and other groups did you participate in?

I tried to just do it all.

I was in the band.

Maybe for a concert or two playing harp. I was in a couple of orchestra things.

I think I want a.

Concerto competition, so I played a piece ucp's with the orchestra. Yeah. And then I sang in all of the choirs. I started with Oriana Women's Choir.

And then I.

Got into E! Country eventually. I sang in the chapel choir with Sherry Dane and.

Yeah, and I love.

Giving performances in the chapel and in the little stage.

In.

The Smith Center for the Arts.

Yeah.

And is that where you got your first PC, where you got your first taste of conducting?

Almost. I remember in high school I was really gung ho and the band teacher was like.

Oh, let me teach.

You, you know, some conducting patterns. And I was like.

Yeah, and I directed a a treble.

Voice.

Ensemble a cappella group.

Yeah.

So Tickled Pink thought it was cool?

Yeah. So I got the director, my senior year of high school and. Kids in my high school were a little competitive, so I felt like I really had to know what I was doing. And then I got to really deepen the understanding APC with T.J..

And.

He really took the time to teach me and give me lessons and pointers and tips.

And yeah, I mean, I I. I credit him.

A lot with helping me get into conducting, so it was kind of providence.

As you know, connecting.

Just for school and.

For our.

four classes, but also for student teaching my senior year. I think I was on accounts at high, but I can't remember.

When you were conducting high school groups.

Which was helping.

Conduct a high school choir.

Yeah.

Right.

So how did you decide to go on and study in graduate school?

So I realized that I still didn't know.

I was about to graduate with a music education degree, but I.

Feel like I know.

How music really worked.

I feel.

Like there are so many parts of music that I.

Didn't understand and I wanted to.

Deepen my understanding.

Of.

And ultimately, I thought.

I might want to.

Teach collegiately rather than high school or middle school, and musica gave me the foundation to do any of those things. And I was just feeling maybe I wanted to learn more. You know, there's more out there to this music.

Thing.

That I didn't get a chance to explore.

Yeah. So then I applied to a bunch.

Of schools for.

Conducting.

And then I got accepted into the degree for choral music at University of Southern California, which T.J. Harper went to, and also.

Troy.

Quinn, who is the director of the Apollo Choir or the Orient of Women's Choir. He was then doing his dmay there.

And, uh.

Yeah, he was the conductor.

My freshman year, a PC.

And I thought, Hey, that sounds like a cool thing.

And the allure.

Of Los Angeles was really interesting to me and just, you know, trying to understand this really high level of music making.

And get more of that because I didn't have enough in undergrad.

It's it's interesting because Troy Quinn, who was a PC music student here now, has gone on to be like the conductor and got to conduct the Brooklyn Philharmonic in their summer pop series.

Oh no, that's awesome.

Year lots of music alumni doing really well. We talked a little bit about how your music fits into your faith, life and vice versa. As I know a lot of the performances that you do as a soprano, you're you're participating in groups and conducting groups that are faith based.

So. How does it all fit together?

Yeah, I think when I was trying to figure out what's next after my master's degree.

I I had.

Been singing and.

Directing a church choir at USC. I was.

Helping out with the.

Campus ministry there, and I was directing one of the mass choirs at USC.

And.

I got to participate in.

A.

Dedication ceremony for the for their new chapel at USC, which was really exciting. And I got to play in the music and I took a deep dove into the liturgy.

And I feel like, yeah, I did a project.

Maybe I was an independent study or something when I was a pissy.

About the.

Liturgical changes.

In.

The language used.

By the Catholic Church in 2010.

And trying to figure out.

Well, where does that leave music? Because we have so many criminals and so much written.

Word and.

Is there are the major changes that are going.

To happen.

And yeah, so since then, I've kind of been obsessed with hymnals.

I have like.

Kind of a small.

Hymnal collection and and.

I think I realized somewhere along.

The way that.

Our liturgy is so vast and it's so expressive.

And.

The words in the music are, you know, it's it's kind of this like the bubbling of the Holy Spirit, you know, it's so effusive and there's so much music. And then at certain points in history, someone says, Hey, all right, this is too much music.

Let's let's tempos.

Downwards.

Feel a little more civilized here. You know, church has less an hour.

And so you get different.

Versions of the liturgy through centuries and centuries. And so lately, I've been really obsessed with medieval music.

And late.

Medieval music right.

Before, like Palestrina and.

Some church.

Reformation in the 1500s or maybe 1400s, No. 1500s and.

So you have this.

Really expansive.

Liturgy.

With really.

Amazing and beautiful prayers.

And. And I think.

A lot of my interest in that comes from.

I guess, the language about Mary.

And I felt a special devotion to Mary PC. I remember it.

Like whenever.

I had a rough day, I would go into the chapel and then I'm there on the left. There's that beautiful statue.

And I would just kind of feel it. What's going on?

Tell me, tell me what to do next? What should I do with my life? You know, every decision I made and underground was under that statue.

And and it's just, you know, the language.

Is so kind of absurd and beautiful that medieval people use about.

Her. I don't know if I have anything offhand, but.

It's you know, Oh, Mary, you know, cornerstone.

Of the foundation or, you know, under the law or like the.

Solomon's Temple.

Or filled.

With pearls and rubies of greatest.

Value.

There's all this really awesome medieval poetry that I think needs to come back.

But that really captured you and Mike.

Yeah, yeah.

Tell us about the Barbara Thornton Scholarship. What will it allow you to do? What are you going to do with that?

Yeah. So sequencing as a group, an early music group that I've always listened to. And Barbara Thornton was a member of that group founding member.

She passed away at a young age, I think.

Due to some sickness or cancer or something.

Yeah.

And the scholarship.

Will allow me to.

Explore. Medieval music specifically in Europe, because the founding members of sequenza were able to go.

And.

Learn with people in Europe, and so they wanted to keep that.

Kind of going.

And so I'm excited to spend next summer going to different like medieval summer camps and learning with different people. There's a couple.

Of.

Women I want to study with that they sing.

Medieval German.

Music that I'm really into. So excited to go meet them and sort of.

Shadow them.

And maybe take some harp lessons and meet.

Benjamin Bagby again.

Who is also a member of sequence here.

And he.

Is a.

Really phenomenal. I think, you know.

When I'm studying, when I was studying Beowulf or something.

In in undergrad.

At PC, his video if like him reciting Beowulf with the Lyre is that was just like, so cool.

And like, I want to figure that out to, you know, sing these epic.

Ballads with a little bit of harp.

Accompaniment or something.

You've already got to do quite a lot of trouble in your your career. You can you tell us about singing at the Vatican and at the Great Wall of China and in Hawaii and in Krakow or anywhere else?

Know if there are any other places on that list. You probably have an added to it too much during the pandemic.

But yeah, actually, I have.

Right before the pandemic, I was in Hong Kong and Taiwan.

Performing with the.

Hong Kong Early Music Society.

Like, like January 2020.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And and we were sitting to tea with my boyfriend's.

Grandfather and everybody's looking at the TV going.

Mysterious virus out of.

Wuhan.

What does this mean?

And I'm like, Oh, that probably won't be any.

You know how.

Wrong I was?

Yeah.

Yeah, it was. It was pretty intense.

So you sang in Hong Kong and have returned healthy to continue. Yeah. So tell us about some of these other experiences. What brought you to the Vatican?

So Providence College, I was on tour.

My junior year. The choir and band went on tour to Italy.

And that was just an amazing.

Trip.

We went to the Vatican.

We toured.

Around and then we also got to sing there, which was just.

Phenomenal. And the food, it's like, you know, just.

Tasting new things that are just so much.

Better than you've ever.

Experienced.

Yeah. And there's so much art and architecture and really beautiful.

I think we also went to Siena to visit the Shrine of Catherine of Siena and.

Just this amazing.

Medieval architecture.

And.

Cobblestone streets.

And, you know, the.

Walls are so close you can touch them.

In the roads and kind of winding your.

Way through this medieval town.

Like.

That also.

In some other locations like the Great Wall of China. Was that part of that? Was that part of your Hong Kong tour?

No, that was acquired tour. I went on with USC. So right after I graduated with them.

I got to.

Yeah, go to.

Beijing and Korea.

For that.

Trip.

Kyra brings you many places so cool. Yeah, and it was just fascinating because I'd never been.

To Asia and.

To just see there's this huge world out there, this wide world that I I know so little.

Of. And to.

Go to mass.

In Beijing at one of.

The sanctioned churches was really interesting.

And.

And you could see how faithful people.

Are and.

The music that they're singing.

And they have the giant.

Projections, which I couldn't read because it was in Chinese characters and.

But.

It was really, really fascinating and a strange experience.

Yeah.

And in 2016, you performed at World Youth Day.

Yeah. So when I was a campus minister.

At.

Cornell University and also Ithaca College, I was the campus minister and director of music.

For.

Those ministries. I had the opportunity to bring students to World Youth Day, so I brought.

A group of.

I think, six.

People.

And we went.

To Krakow, Poland.

To go to World Youth Day. And then I.

I also applied to perform there. So there was this giant stage.

And I.

Got to sing some.

Gregorian chant and and.

Some other kind.

Of.

Folk music or pop music.

That had.

Religious.

Themes.

And I got to travel around with a group from Dubai called a Blaze.

And they're.

Still together. And it's awesome, just like seeing people.

All around.

The world making music.

And are they doing early music.

Now that the.

Pop music or praise band music kind of stuff?

Yeah.

Or contemporary contemporary Christian rock? I guess they call.

It or what? Yeah.

Yeah. And there was also a.

Woman from.

Mexico.

I think that was.

In our performing set. It was just really cool to perform for all these people in this like little Polish.

Village.

And the whole street squares lit.

Up and and then felt like walking. How many.

Miles I can't.

Remember. But you, you took a pilgrimage to a big open.

Fields in the middle of nowhere.

And the pope showed.

Up. So that was awesome.

So I imagine that you stay pretty busy between your studies with for your degree and performing in general. What can you walk us through? What a typical week would be like, you know, matching weekends are busier with religious services.

Yeah.

one thing I started doing.

When I.

Left P.S. was a lot of professional singers.

Will have a quote church job.

So I.

Sang and Lutheran churches and Methodist churches.

And now.

I sang with a Presbyterian church for a while. So that's kind of my Sunday morning gig.

And then.

So in Cleveland, at least.

Saturday night, I do the.

Saturday mass.

At.

Holy Rosary and other Marian Church, which is in walking distance to my house and right between my house and school for me, which is kind of nice.

And then.

Sunday morning, I'll sing hymns with the Presbyterians.

And then.

Sunday night, sometimes I'm back at Holy Rosary, famous for their 8:00 p.m. last chance. Most kind of.

Thing.

Because they're the it's like the.

The.

Church for both campus ministry at Case Western Reserve University. And also there's a lot of local hospitals in the area. So a lot of.

The.

People who work funny hours can.

Go to.

Mass there. And then during the week, so I'm still in class.

Or I'm.

Actually, I guess I'm done with coursework now.

I have.

In Sambhal. So there's Baroque orchestra, which I'm singing a piece with them this semester. So everybody's learning.

On.

Instruments that are a little bit different than modern instruments, but things you would recognize violins, violas and then also harpsichord.

No.

Cellos basses.

And then.

Sometimes there's like a.

Funny looking. Trumpet, but it's it's a vowel.

It doesn't have the vowels on top, the little buttons, it's like.

Longer and all of the tubes of natural trumpet anyway.

Yeah. So sometimes I sing with them or play harp with them. And then we have like early music singers, which is really fun. It has members of our community and also students. And so we sing big Palestrina works or.

Right now, we're doing early 17th century music.

Big double choir kind of things or.

Lots of different voice parts.

Kind of, and.

It's really satisfying to sing.

And then I have another.

Little smaller early music and sample that I sing with. And they we do more one part sort of solo things with you.

Or get organ or.

Harpsichord.

And then I.

Also this semester, I've been teaching some of my friends beginner harp lessons, which is really.

Fun because I love. I loved being a.

Beginner at things, but also kind of guiding beginners through things. It's one of those PC music and things.

And then.

Sometimes I sing a service at.

The local.

Episcopal Cathedral for Copland or night service or.

Evening prayer.

And then there's.

Other sort of colloquium kind of.

Things where all of the music.

Education and.

Historical performance and musicology students and professors will gather on a Friday.

Afternoon.

And we'll listen to a lecture by a visiting professor and then in between all of those things I have to practice.

And it sounds like you're also you mentioned as even I world, you say you were dabbling in more contemporary music on the harp. So it sounds like for your vocal performance, that's really you stay more in the early music, but know a little of us both.

Yeah, I mean.

Lately I've been singing a lot of early music.

But I uh, yeah.

I also like singing folk music or pop music and then accompanying myself on harp kind of singer songwriter stuff that you would see someone with a guitar.

But I have.

My little harps.

And this is.

My littlest one.

For.

The listeners.

Excellent. A little more portable, probably, than the pedal harps that you do.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So I can bring it on a plane.

I can just bring it wherever.

And it.

My.

Little harp. Not this one. This is a neat little harp. I brought it on the plane to Poland.

So, um.

Those that I played for World Youth Day.

And then I had to hike a long way with that half got.

Very strong blisters.

But it was.

Worth it.

I'm sure in all of those many different places, you know, given the range of places you've performed and the number of performance you've done in your your career, you must have some funny performance stories about things that have gone wrong or things that have gone really, really well, but unexpectedly well.

Yeah, I guess.

I just, yeah, I maybe thinking about at.

Cornell University and I was.

We had a maybe a 930 p.m. mass. And by that point, I'm.

Always just super sleepy.

But just.

Having students kind.

Of show up, always really pumped to go and.

Sing in my choir. It was just so exciting. And I remember one time I sang.

A kind of.

one of these Christian contemporary pop kind of songs is a post communion.

Meditation and the whole.

Chapel of Silence really dark. So like 10:00 at.

Night and then one.

Kid in the front.

Row of the pew, he.

Is just like.

Yeah, it was great.

I was like, Oh, I spoke to that person, you.

Know, like, that's.

The incredible thing with music. It's like, sometimes, you know, I'm tired, everyone's tired.

But.

I'm singing from the.

Heart and and.

It really touches someone.

And I have to be open for that. You know, I have to keep doing my job in order that, you know.

Other people will experience that or feel some connection.

I just think that is such an amazing anecdote because just like a culture that is not a thing that people do in Catholic services like no Catholic, you know, I think I feel like I've been in services where people have applauded and like looked around me like, where am I?

Did I wander into some other like denomination by accident? So that that is really extraordinary. That's really moved like to even overcome like this, like, this is not what you do a Catholic mass.

Yeah.

And it was also a really cool World Youth Day. Show me this, but also P, C and other places just how diverse the Catholics of the world are.

And a Cornell and USC.

When I was at USC, it was like the number one international school.

In the world.

Just people coming from all over with the same faith or, you know, going to mass in China or something like that.

It's just.

Incredible to see.

How people.

Come with their different expectations for worship and their different.

Liturgical.

Practices.

And maybe growing up in.

New Jersey, I had one experience, but.

I've.

Certainly seen so many more experiences.

And I'm.

Always excited to go visit a new church and hear what they have to do.

So this year, as you know, the college is also celebrating its 50 years of women, the 50th anniversary of women enrolling as undergraduate students to celebrate peace is honoring the achievements of women faculty, students, alumni and friends of the college.

I'm curious if you think your gender affected your experience in PC. And if so, how?

As a music education or being an education, it was.

A lot of women. There were many women.

In my music program and also in myself.

Class.

And I'm.

Having the experience to live with a group of girls.

And.

Some of the apartments and stuff like that.

I I have two.

Brothers growing up, so.

I had, you know, female.

Friends, but I was never exposed.

To all of the.

Like, Oh, getting ready to go.

Out and and putting on makeup and getting our hair done or whatever.

I hadn't done to any of those girly things before. So I think just having a place to explore what it means to be feminine or what it means to be.

You know, have.

This kind of sisterhood has really stuck with me and I really appreciate.

That. And then.

I never felt.

You know.

In my Civ class, there was. It was maybe pretty split between girls and guys, but. I just remember feeling.

Like I was.

I had a voice and I was always welcome to speak in.

That environment.

And my thoughts were.

Valid and, you know, I was.

Just.

Always welcome.

And that was like a really wonderful experience.

Yeah, and I think, yeah, just knowing.

PC was there, too, there is always someone.

That I could talk to you about anything.

Or when I had.

A roommate drama my first year.

You know, I.

Could talk to.

The music and professor Dr. City, and she was like, Let me listen to you. You know, and it was really nice.

So I felt very heard in a way that maybe.

When I was one.

Out of ten.

Conducting students my second year at USC.

I was the one woman out of maybe.

ten masters and doctoral students, or maybe master's students, because those are your masters. And it was very different experience.

And I.

It was a little harder to feel like my voice was heard.

But I mean, not altogether.

They were really conscious of of those disparities.

And I think, you know, be a conductor and.

Being a musician, there's certain. Things you might experience, you know, as a conductor, you might experience sexism or better. I feel really lucky that I wasn't really on the receiving end.

Of a whole lot and that.

I was part of this kind of generation that's hoping to.

To transform.

That instead.

And be more welcoming and open and.

You know, using.

And changes, you.

Know, names of things. So instead of when I was directing the Oriana Women's Chorus at USC, you know, I think it's just the Oriana.

Choir or something like that.

So it's more expansive, I guess.

But it's so interesting, you point out something that we hadn't really touched on, but the conducting community is largely male and just historically right, this was the position that you had the stereotype. You know, when you think about you picture a conductor, you think of somebody in a tuxedo now.

And so did you have thoughts about that when you were thinking about going to pursue your degree and conducting? Was this something that you can see?

Yeah, I guess it was maybe later when I was thinking.

About doing a doctorate and conducting that.

I was looking at some overseas programs and.

You know, the older women in my.

Field saying.

Oh, don't go, don't go to England. You know, you're a woman, you won't be taken seriously.

And it's not true for everywhere in.

England, but.

Certain places, there's a huge.

You know, boy choir tradition.

And stuff.

Like that.

And even today, I as a singer, sometimes in early music, there's this propensity to ask women to sound like little boys or little girls, because that's the way.

They did it back then. But I don't.

I consider myself a woman.

You know, and.

I.

Want to sing with my big girl voice. So sometimes those those situations are challenging because you have to sort of thread the needle of what a conductor is asking you as a vocalist.

And.

What kind of sound you can.

Actually produce because being a singer is is being.

Very malleable, you know.

And choral music especially, it's one minute you're singing spirituals and another minute you're singing.

Rachmaninoff and another.

Minute you're.

Singing do to kind of abstract.

New music or something. So you have to kind of be ready for everything, but it gets very tiring when a conductor asks you repeatedly.

Oh no, no vibrato, you don't have.

Any personality in the sound. And so I'm.

Really grateful that.

At USC, I was asked to sound.

You know, have.

So many different colors of sound in my voice.

And that the women around.

Me felt empowered to sing out, you.

Know, in in.

Those situations.

And, you know, then dial it back, you know, OK.

We're.

Singing.

Some Stanford choral music from.

England.

19 hundred and starts to sound like. That's a very different sound than.

You know, something even louder and more explosive on. But yeah, it's a. I've been I've been sort of keeping on.

Paying attention to trends in music and what's being asked of musicians and performers.

And how.

Those are.

Coded in ways that.

Could be sexist.

Or.

Racist.

Even.

Yeah, you know, when you're asking someone who's sung in a a gospel style their whole.

Life tone, oh, dial it down, you know, or something and and how.

Offensive that must be.

To.

Feel like your voice can't be heard in this.

Situation. Yeah, it's tricky, yeah, right.

The one hand, some folks are trying to think in their mind that they're aiming for quote unquote historical accuracy. Right. But in.

There we can't we.

Can't recreate historical ears.

So in a way.

This faux historical sound that's just stripped of all motion. I mean, I'm not saying that every group does this, but there's been certain trends throughout time.

You know, only.

Voicing that so you have to suddenly was like, Well.

We.

Don't have any boys here. I don't see any small.

Children running around.

You didn't train them. This thing like this. I was trained to sing like this.

So let me give you what I can do. You know that kind of thing?

So you you're scheduled to graduate this spring. What's next for you? Obviously, we've got the scholarship and you've got that great travel on the horizon. But what are you hoping to do? What's your next step?

Yeah, I'm really hoping to perform. Maybe teach a little. Yeah, sing concerts. I do some Irish folk carping and I do some medieval folk harp medieval music. So I'm hoping to bring some of those things on the road.

There's a couple of people that I perform with. My boyfriend plays violin and we have a duo called Time Stand Still.

But we do.

17th century music.

And maybe a little earlier.

Yeah, I just hope to keep learning. I also play.

Like a giant baroque harp.

Which has 100 strings.

Just to compare for those who don't know how many strings do the other harps that you play.

A.

Concert pedal? Harper's 47. My big folk harpist. 36, my small, full capos 25. And my smallest harp has 13 guys.

So again, I played complete ignorance on all things musical. So what's the what is the difference in the range like? You play a wider range with 100 strings like that's.

Yeah.

So I could.

Go into the mechanisms of pedal harps and stuff. So basically in.

The.

1700s, they decided, OK. Too many strings, us too many.

We've had enough.

And so they have different mechanisms to change.

So you.

Have one.

String and then you can.

Kind of like a fret on a.

Guitar.

Or a capo.

Holds down.

one semitone on a on a guitar.

Basically, they figured out a mechanism to. To shorten the length of each string, so on.

A modern.

Pedal harp, there's like 200 moving parts that's filled with bits of metal and rods and all sorts of things up the column of the harp and then down through the.

Huckabee bit the neck. And so.

That has these two prongs that shorten the length of the.

String. So you can do like if it's like, do.

Do do so, you can do it's tuned in c flat and you can do C flat, C.

Major and then.

C sharp major and then every combination.

In between.

Prior to that technology, people were like, We have music that has a sharp or g flat or.

You know, we have to.

Play all these different notes that aren't just the like the white keys of the.

Piano. So how do we do that?

The answer was just add more strings. So basically the triple harp, which is a harp I play, it's kind of got two.

Rows of white keys. And then in the.

Middle, it's like the black keys of the piano.

But.

You have to reach through the the the strings on the outside to get to this.

Middle layer.

Yeah. So is it kind of reached through.

And and.

So the more chromatic it is, the more complicated it is. And that's why.

Eventually we were like, Alright, enough.

Of this, we can't.

Play complicated.

Pieces that.

Have a lot of key changes.

With this instrument, and so there is a little bit of time.

Where.

Mozart was like, the harp has got nothing to offer. I can't use it.

I don't like it. But then a little bit after that, then you have like Beethoven and there's a woman as Madame de la Rue.

Who is the.

Kind of like a Beethoven Indian.

Composer for the.

Harp and. Yeah, she. You know, there's.

People throughout history.

And women throughout history who are kind of bringing the harp into a new generation, much.

Like in the turn of the 17th century, there were groups of women that were.

Hired to perform in various.

Courts.

Throughout.

Italy, and they.

Were harpists and singers and cellists.

And keyboard.

Players and stuff like that.

So and it's been a pleasure chatting with you today. Thank you so much for joining us, but we can't let our listeners leave without hearing a little bit of this fantastic triple harp that you've been telling us all about.

So could you tell us a little bit about the selection of music we're about to hear?

This piece is a sort of Marian lullaby, but also a little bit of a mad song as Mary is holding the infant Jesus in her arms, but also having these flash forwards to.

The.

To the crucifixion. And so it's based on this, and it's really mysterious.

Kind of repeating based pattern that.

Adds to the stability, but also to the sense of insanity that kind of grows throughout this piece.

Wouldn't it be for me?

To read. If you would would she would. And one. I heard.

one quarter of a.

Jury. These. Judy.

Could you give?

Go on if. The move to a school school.

I created Rod.

Pentecostal, they thought they knew no matter what they could read, 332 people.

Brought me to experience. More. It was.

Your.

A local. Sort of. So something. So you cut. Rate cut your daughter on what's in. Well. Chris Christie.

The Kraken goes to.

Oh, six, oh my god, oh my God, oh.

Would you pass it on.

To David Keyboard?

Christopher Kratsios Adobe Condor.

Who was off school to school fees for.

The Toronto school. But do it.

Oh.

Swine flu was still colorful because they created president. Steve? You do live for a pack of wood and piano. And display. I feel your new army belong to me.

We don't need to be. I came.

To New York all these years ago, so. Working to boost.

Your. Do your corduroy, your come. Touch, food and poor roads. Touch and see. Not. If.

For. Star. He came to me without me.

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