Breaking hearts and minds — Joan Barker '04
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Liz Kay
Hello and welcome to the Providence College podcast, I'm your host, Liz Kaye, and I'm joined by producer Chris Judge of the Class of 2005 here in the Providence College podcast, we bring you interesting stories from the fryer family.
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Liz Kay
This week, we're talking with Joanne Barker, an alum from the Class of 2004 who majored in history at French at PC, a chance meeting with a recruiter at a job fair. Her senior year set the course of her life abroad, first as a Peace Corps volunteer in Niger and later as a Defense Department consultant for language and
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Liz Kay
cross-cultural training. She has worked in the United Arab Emirates and Afghanistan, including two years as a defense contractor teaching English to the Afghan Air Force after the United States withdrawal from Afghanistan in August. Barker has become an advocate for vulnerable Afghans left behind, helping them evacuate and sending aid, as well as writing op eds calling for U.S.
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Liz Kay
government accountability in this matter. Joan, thanks so much for joining us.
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Joan Barker
Thank you, guys. It's a pleasure to be here.
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Liz Kay
So let's just start at the beginning of your international career. What led you to join the Peace Corps originally?
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Joan Barker
So as you mentioned in the intro.
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Joan Barker
There was a career fair in.
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Joan Barker
Sleeve in my senior year at P.S. I mean, I'd.
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Joan Barker
Heard of the Peace Corps, but I'd never met anybody.
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Joan Barker
That had done it. And so I was at this.
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Joan Barker
Career fair and there were all these booths for different sort of like.
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Joan Barker
Financial institutions.
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Joan Barker
Or career fair booths that were.
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Joan Barker
Aimed at like the School of Business at.
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Joan Barker
PC. And then there's this lone.
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Joan Barker
Guy in the.
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Joan Barker
Corner from.
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Joan Barker
The Peace Corps, and I was like, That's the guy I want to talk to. So I went.
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Joan Barker
Over to him.
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Joan Barker
And, you know, just asking him about the application process and how you got selected and how they assign you and things like that. And we just.
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Joan Barker
Started.
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Joan Barker
Corresponding and I he convinced me to fill out an application, and that was that. So, yeah, that was the end of my senior year. And then exactly.
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Joan Barker
A year later, in the summer of.
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Joan Barker
2005, I was on a plane to West Africa to go start my two years in Niger.
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Liz Kay
And what did you know about Niger before you got on that plane?
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Joan Barker
I am ashamed to admit that I did not know much about Niger.
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Joan Barker
In fact, I had never really heard of it. I heard of it pronounced Niger and the British pronunciation.
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Joan Barker
But I had to pull out a map and a globe and look and see where it was. And when I was going through the application process, there still wasn't much out.
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Joan Barker
On the internet. It wasn't like you could go Google everything or go read about people's experiences in the Peace Corps. So I.
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Joan Barker
Really had no idea what to.
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Joan Barker
Expect going into it, what the service would be like, what.
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Joan Barker
What anything was going to be like.
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Joan Barker
You still had to write hard copy.
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Joan Barker
Letters to former.
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Joan Barker
Volunteers that the Peace Corps could put.
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Joan Barker
You in touch with and ask them, like every the small things from what do I pack in my.
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Joan Barker
Suitcase to what is life.
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Joan Barker
Like there?
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Joan Barker
So I was pretty blind.
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Joan Barker
Going into the whole thing, but it was open.
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Joan Barker
To that experience and really had this.
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Joan Barker
Hunger and thirst to learn about other.
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Joan Barker
Cultures and go overseas and.
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Joan Barker
And see the world. And I've grown up in Connecticut next.
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Joan Barker
Door from PC and just kind of.
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Joan Barker
Wanted to get out.
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Joan Barker
And yeah, so that was the start of it.
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Joan Barker
And then after.
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Joan Barker
My service, that was that was the launching pad into.
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Joan Barker
My decision to go into language and culture training.
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Liz Kay
And what kind of work did you do in Nigeria?
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Joan Barker
So I was assigned to.
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Joan Barker
A rural.
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Joan Barker
Post as a.
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Joan Barker
Health.
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Joan Barker
Volunteer.
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Joan Barker
Which in different countries that the.
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Joan Barker
Peace Corps.
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Joan Barker
Has.
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Joan Barker
Volunteers, and that.
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Joan Barker
Can mean many different things. So, so being a health.
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Joan Barker
Volunteer in different.
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Joan Barker
Countries might entail different.
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Joan Barker
Things. And where I.
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Joan Barker
Was because it.
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Joan Barker
Was so rural, there were no.
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Joan Barker
Health clinics.
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Joan Barker
And there were no hospitals. So it's not like I was serving in a.
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Joan Barker
In a structure and edifice of any sort. It was more like doing education. So partnering with.
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Joan Barker
Local.
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Joan Barker
NGOs and.
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Joan Barker
Nigerian aid workers.
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Joan Barker
And helping fund campaigns where they could.
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Joan Barker
Come out into the rural areas.
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Joan Barker
And talk to.
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Joan Barker
People about things like family planning.
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Joan Barker
And maternal and.
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Joan Barker
Child health, because that was one of the.
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Joan Barker
Biggest challenges Nigeria was facing.
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Joan Barker
And still.
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Joan Barker
Faces is.
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Joan Barker
High mortality rates.
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Joan Barker
And infant mortality rates. So just addressing some of those health concerns. So that was what.
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Joan Barker
We were working on.
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Joan Barker
But at the same time, the village I lived in was on the.
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Joan Barker
Border of Nigeria.
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Joan Barker
And so many of the men that lived in the.
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Joan Barker
Village where I lived, they were farmers.
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Joan Barker
And about six months.
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Joan Barker
Out of the year, they would farm.
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Joan Barker
And then six months out of the year, they couldn't.
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Joan Barker
Farm because it.
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Joan Barker
Was off season.
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Joan Barker
For farming, the weather and everything like.
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Joan Barker
That. So they would go down.
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Joan Barker
Across the border into Nigeria to work in the local markets there.
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Joan Barker
And like hawk jewelry at people or try to sell them knockoff sneakers and things.
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Joan Barker
Like that. So the point is this all comes back to how I started teaching English. So these men, these like older men and some of the.
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Joan Barker
Younger men before they went to Nigeria, they.
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Joan Barker
Would pull me aside and say, Hey, can you teach me some English? So when I.
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Joan Barker
Go to the market, like, I.
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Joan Barker
Can try to sell things using English, because in Indonesia.
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Joan Barker
Where I lived in.
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Joan Barker
That village.
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Joan Barker
The local language was called Hausa Nature U.S.A.
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Joan Barker
So I learned to speak Hausa and I speak house.
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Joan Barker
Every.
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Joan Barker
Every day.
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Joan Barker
With them. But when they went to Nigeria, they had to speak English.
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Joan Barker
In the markets.
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Joan Barker
So.
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Joan Barker
Informally.
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Joan Barker
Like while I'm doing.
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Joan Barker
This other work as a health.
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Joan Barker
Volunteer, informally, I'd be sitting with them like drinking tea in the afternoons and we'd have these English lessons and I.
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Joan Barker
Just.
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Joan Barker
Loved it. It was so.
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Joan Barker
Much fun because in return, they'd be teaching me more.
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Joan Barker
Things about their language.
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Joan Barker
And it was like this.
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Joan Barker
Great.
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Joan Barker
Exchange. So I actually walked away from that. Most people that I served with in Nigeria.
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Joan Barker
The Americans were volunteers.
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Joan Barker
Went on to get their.
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Joan Barker
Master's in public health. I was like, I'm going to go get my degree in teaching English because I just that's that's what I fell in love with there.
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Liz Kay
So where did that experience take you next?
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Joan Barker
So when I came back to the U.S., I went back home to Connecticut and went to.
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Joan Barker
Central Connecticut State University and got my master's.
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Joan Barker
Degree.
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Joan Barker
In.
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Joan Barker
Linguistics with a focus in teaching English to speakers of other languages.
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Joan Barker
Knowing that I wanted to take that at some point and go back.
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Joan Barker
Overseas and.
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Joan Barker
Teach English again.
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Joan Barker
Not so much in a rural village.
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Joan Barker
But I ended up.
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Joan Barker
There's a lot of opportunity out there just for folks listening.
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Joan Barker
If they're on that career path.
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Joan Barker
Or are curious, there are a lot of opportunities.
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Joan Barker
To work. For example, in.
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Joan Barker
Universities overseas doing English prep for.
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Joan Barker
You know, for example, for people that want to come study in the U.S. or.
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Joan Barker
Lots of English for specific.
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Joan Barker
Purposes like English, for business or things.
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Joan Barker
Like that. I just ended up by chance when I when I got my.
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Joan Barker
Degree.
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Joan Barker
In 2010.
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Joan Barker
I was on a job board and there was an advertisement to go work on a military base in the United Arab Emirates.
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Joan Barker
And I was like, Well, that looks interesting, and I really like hands on teaching and.
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Joan Barker
And I liked working with this.
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Joan Barker
Male population.
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Joan Barker
When I was in the Peace Corps. So I don't I would love to go work with these soldiers. It was specifically these male soldiers in the UAE. And so I.
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Joan Barker
Took that job and it.
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Joan Barker
Was an American.
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Joan Barker
Company.
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Joan Barker
That I was working for, and they were partnered with the.
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Joan Barker
U.S. Embassy. So the US Embassy in.
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Joan Barker
The United Arab Emirates.
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Joan Barker
Was.
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Joan Barker
Contracting with the.
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Joan Barker
Emirati military, their military to.
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Joan Barker
Ask the US for some English training.
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Joan Barker
So the company that I work for was contracted to do so, and there was a team of about ten of us. So we lived in Dubai and we.
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Joan Barker
Commuted every day to this military base and work with.
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Joan Barker
These soldiers for about six hours a day, five days a week. And that was really, really cool.
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Joan Barker
And then so some of the folks.
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Joan Barker
That I had worked with there went on to work.
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Joan Barker
In Afghanistan and.
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Joan Barker
Some of the military bases there.
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Joan Barker
So it's this kind of small network at that point of people that actually.
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Joan Barker
Have this experience.
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Joan Barker
Working with partner forces of.
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Joan Barker
The United States.
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Joan Barker
And I know about these job opportunities.
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Joan Barker
So one of my friends, one day when I was looking for a job, this is in 2017, he's like, You should come over to Afghanistan. He was somebody that I had worked with in the UAE. So.
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Liz Kay
And what was that experience like when you when you transferred to Afghanistan and you started working for the Afghans with the Afghan Air Force? I mean, especially since, as you mentioned, you know, these were very male populations, and I'm imagining that in the UAE and Afghanistan, this is not a situation where, you know, women and men typically
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Liz Kay
are working together as equals.
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Joan Barker
Right?
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Joan Barker
So this is the interesting thing.
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Joan Barker
So my background, having served in the Peace Corps.
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Joan Barker
That village in West Africa.
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Joan Barker
Was.
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Joan Barker
Muslim. That country of.
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Joan Barker
Niger is something that 90 to 90. Percent Muslim.
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Joan Barker
So I had.
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Joan Barker
That was a crash course.
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Joan Barker
In working in that kind of environment as a female.
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Joan Barker
And I think other females.
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Joan Barker
In my position can echo the sentiment that.
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Joan Barker
As an American woman.
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Joan Barker
Often.
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Joan Barker
Working in.
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Joan Barker
Those spaces.
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Joan Barker
You are treated.
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Joan Barker
As sort of this like.
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Joan Barker
Like third, gender, right, because they.
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Joan Barker
Don't treat you necessarily like you're not expecting me to act like a Muslim woman in the local community would be acting, they know that I'm from a different country.
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Joan Barker
And so you're not you're certainly not.
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Joan Barker
Always treated like men are. I have.
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Joan Barker
Male American colleagues.
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Joan Barker
Who sometimes they would. We'd be standing.
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Joan Barker
Together and working with counterparts in other.
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Joan Barker
Countries, and they kind of ignore me and talk to the guy who is standing with not necessarily as a as amount of disrespect, but sometimes it was.
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Joan Barker
They were trying to be respectful.
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Joan Barker
Not addressing you directly, not making eye contact with you because that's.
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Joan Barker
Inappropriate for them.
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Joan Barker
To do so. I like to be clear that I don't I, you know, I sometimes I felt like people would condescend to me in certain situations. But most of the time, especially with like male counterparts that I knew.
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Joan Barker
Made me feel very respected.
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Joan Barker
And actually would take.
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Joan Barker
Care to make sure I knew that they were taking care of me. And in various situations where, you know, there's a lot of security risks at.
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Joan Barker
Play, my life was in their.
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Joan Barker
Hands and I always felt comfortable and.
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Joan Barker
Respected. But but that's a valid question, because that is it's it is hard sometimes to like.
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Joan Barker
For example.
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Joan Barker
one anecdote I can give you is I.
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Joan Barker
Did work.
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Joan Barker
With a woman in the UAE who worked in that schoolhouse with.
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Joan Barker
Those Emirati soldiers.
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Joan Barker
That we taught. And she was an American, but she was Muslim and she was treated differently than I was. Comments were made.
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Joan Barker
For example.
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Joan Barker
About what she wore and.
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Joan Barker
How she should be covering, you know, like her hair.
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Joan Barker
So it was.
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Joan Barker
That was very.
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Joan Barker
Interesting. That's one anecdote. I don't want that to make people.
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Joan Barker
Think, OK, that's what everybody is treated like.
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Joan Barker
But that's to your point.
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Joan Barker
There are different.
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Joan Barker
Expectations.
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Joan Barker
In those.
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Joan Barker
Countries and certainly in every and.
00;10;05;12 - 00;10;06;21
Joan Barker
Any Muslim country I've worked in.
00;10;06;21 - 00;10;07;06
Joan Barker
I've had to be.
00;10;07;06 - 00;10;08;17
Joan Barker
Very cognizant of my dress.
00;10;09;00 - 00;10;09;09
Joan Barker
And my.
00;10;09;09 - 00;10;10;23
Joan Barker
Appearance and my interaction.
00;10;10;23 - 00;10;13;08
Joan Barker
With the people I work with, specifically the.
00;10;13;08 - 00;10;15;16
Joan Barker
Men. So but I do.
00;10;15;16 - 00;10;21;15
Joan Barker
Think to your question, my experience having worked in Niger and then worked in the UAE.
00;10;21;26 - 00;10;22;07
Joan Barker
I think.
00;10;22;07 - 00;10;23;21
Joan Barker
Was very good preparation for.
00;10;23;21 - 00;10;28;07
Joan Barker
Going to that military base in Afghanistan because I knew what to expect.
00;10;28;21 - 00;10;33;05
Joan Barker
It's already a little unnerving. Thinking about yourself.
00;10;33;05 - 00;10;33;18
Joan Barker
Getting on a.
00;10;33;18 - 00;10;34;06
Joan Barker
Military.
00;10;34;06 - 00;10;35;25
Joan Barker
C-17 to fly into.
00;10;36;11 - 00;10;37;06
Joan Barker
An air force base.
00;10;37;06 - 00;10;38;03
Joan Barker
In a combat zone.
00;10;38;13 - 00;10;39;19
Joan Barker
There's a lot that you're trying to think.
00;10;39;19 - 00;10;40;05
Joan Barker
About, but I.
00;10;40;05 - 00;10;42;27
Joan Barker
Didn't have to worry about that because I already.
00;10;42;27 - 00;10;43;11
Joan Barker
Knew about.
00;10;43;11 - 00;10;45;23
Joan Barker
That. Like working with people from different religions or different.
00;10;45;23 - 00;10;48;25
Joan Barker
Cultures, I felt like that was already like the way was already.
00;10;48;25 - 00;10;51;02
Joan Barker
Paved for that. I just got to focus on.
00;10;51;17 - 00;10;53;07
Joan Barker
Those broader security concerns.
00;10;54;06 - 00;10;55;03
Joan Barker
So that was.
00;10;56;07 - 00;10;57;13
Joan Barker
That was good preparation.
00;10;58;20 - 00;11;03;27
Liz Kay
And did you stay in touch with folks when in Afghanistan after you left that position?
00;11;04;17 - 00;11;07;12
Joan Barker
It did. So this was two.
00;11;07;24 - 00;11;08;26
Joan Barker
18 when I left.
00;11;09;18 - 00;11;13;02
Joan Barker
Obviously, everybody. Most of the folks there have Facebook. At this.
00;11;13;02 - 00;11;14;03
Joan Barker
Point. They might not have.
00;11;14;03 - 00;11;16;21
Joan Barker
Laptops and computers, but everybody's using their cell phones.
00;11;16;21 - 00;11;19;07
Joan Barker
So on that military.
00;11;19;07 - 00;11;20;03
Joan Barker
Base where I work.
00;11;20;23 - 00;11;22;10
Joan Barker
I worked with two sets of.
00;11;22;10 - 00;11;25;05
Joan Barker
People in the.
00;11;25;05 - 00;11;26;03
Joan Barker
Offices.
00;11;26;06 - 00;11;27;00
Joan Barker
For.
00;11;27;00 - 00;11;28;07
Joan Barker
The defense contractors.
00;11;28;07 - 00;11;28;10
Joan Barker
And.
00;11;28;10 - 00;11;29;25
Joan Barker
The U.S. military on that base.
00;11;29;26 - 00;11;32;06
Joan Barker
Much of the stuff was what we call local nationals.
00;11;32;06 - 00;11;34;15
Joan Barker
So they were Afghans, people running.
00;11;35;13 - 00;11;36;29
Joan Barker
Spreadsheets or just doing.
00;11;36;29 - 00;11;39;11
Joan Barker
Admin admin tasks or.
00;11;39;16 - 00;11;40;25
Joan Barker
Serving as H.R. for the other.
00;11;40;25 - 00;11;41;11
Joan Barker
Local staff.
00;11;41;11 - 00;11;43;14
Joan Barker
We were hiring. So we worked with a lot of.
00;11;43;14 - 00;11;47;21
Joan Barker
Afghans, and those folks fell under the job title.
00;11;47;21 - 00;11;49;07
Joan Barker
Of interpreter translator because.
00;11;49;07 - 00;11;50;20
Joan Barker
They would be interpreting and translating.
00;11;50;20 - 00;11;54;07
Joan Barker
Documents for us, serving as interpreters at high.
00;11;54;07 - 00;11;55;09
Joan Barker
Level meetings on the.
00;11;55;09 - 00;11;55;21
Joan Barker
Military.
00;11;55;21 - 00;11;56;21
Joan Barker
Base with the Afghan.
00;11;56;21 - 00;11;59;28
Joan Barker
Military leadership. So they served a lot of different roles, but.
00;11;59;28 - 00;12;01;02
Joan Barker
They qualified.
00;12;01;02 - 00;12;01;09
Joan Barker
For.
00;12;01;09 - 00;12;01;27
Joan Barker
What you may.
00;12;01;27 - 00;12;02;11
Joan Barker
Have heard in.
00;12;02;11 - 00;12;04;08
Joan Barker
The media as the Sivy.
00;12;04;16 - 00;12;05;20
Joan Barker
Or special immigration.
00;12;05;20 - 00;12;06;05
Joan Barker
Visas.
00;12;07;04 - 00;12;11;03
Joan Barker
So I worked with those folks, like in the office, and then I'd go out and teach in the classrooms.
00;12;11;03 - 00;12;12;29
Joan Barker
Which were usually these little trailers like.
00;12;13;05 - 00;12;15;28
Joan Barker
Dotted around the military base next to.
00;12;15;28 - 00;12;18;28
Joan Barker
Different aircraft hangars and things like that where we'd be working with the.
00;12;18;28 - 00;12;19;28
Joan Barker
Soldiers of.
00;12;19;28 - 00;12;20;06
Joan Barker
The Air.
00;12;20;06 - 00;12;21;24
Joan Barker
Force and Special Mission.
00;12;21;24 - 00;12;32;10
Joan Barker
Wing. So when I left, I knew hundreds of Afghans. So, you know, I mean, we're all in touch on Facebook and WhatsApp and Signal.
00;12;32;10 - 00;12;33;14
Joan Barker
And Twitter and all these.
00;12;33;14 - 00;12;34;00
Joan Barker
Different social.
00;12;34;00 - 00;12;38;07
Joan Barker
Media platforms. So when this all, I don't know.
00;12;38;07 - 00;12;39;10
Joan Barker
If that's where your question is.
00;12;39;10 - 00;12;46;23
Joan Barker
Leading, but when this all kicked off in August, when Kabul was falling. Myself, along with hundreds of thousands.
00;12;46;23 - 00;12;49;22
Joan Barker
Of other defense contractors and military servicemen.
00;12;49;22 - 00;12;51;18
Joan Barker
And women who had been in Afghanistan.
00;12;51;19 - 00;12;52;15
Joan Barker
Everybody on.
00;12;52;15 - 00;12;54;14
Joan Barker
August 15th went through this collective.
00;12;54;14 - 00;12;55;03
Joan Barker
Experience.
00;12;55;03 - 00;12;55;15
Joan Barker
Of the.
00;12;55;15 - 00;12;56;21
Joan Barker
Phone just started like.
00;12;57;19 - 00;13;10;07
Joan Barker
Binging and buzzing and notification after notification after notification coming in on all of the Facebook, WhatsApp and Instagram, like any way that they could get in touch with us, but please save me, help me. You know, and it was.
00;13;10;26 - 00;13;13;14
Joan Barker
A very traumatizing experience for them and for us.
00;13;13;14 - 00;13;14;22
Joan Barker
And it was it was.
00;13;14;22 - 00;13;16;19
Joan Barker
It was scary and very intense.
00;13;16;19 - 00;13;19;27
Joan Barker
But yeah, so that that connection to.
00;13;19;27 - 00;13;20;17
Joan Barker
Us.
00;13;21;09 - 00;13;23;14
Joan Barker
From when we left Afghanistan, you know, maybe.
00;13;23;14 - 00;13;25;13
Joan Barker
Every four or five months.
00;13;25;13 - 00;13;26;13
Joan Barker
We'll be checking in with each.
00;13;26;13 - 00;13;27;12
Joan Barker
Other prior to any of.
00;13;27;12 - 00;13;32;12
Joan Barker
This happening. Just kind of like, how are you doing? How are things there? And they would check in on me, Miss Joan, how is.
00;13;32;12 - 00;13;34;27
Joan Barker
Your family or, you know, merry Christmas if it.
00;13;34;27 - 00;13;35;13
Joan Barker
Was Christmas.
00;13;35;13 - 00;13;38;18
Joan Barker
But we didn't really talk much. And then this has been a very intense.
00;13;38;18 - 00;13;40;06
Joan Barker
Situation for all of us where we were.
00;13;40;06 - 00;13;40;29
Joan Barker
Talking to them.
00;13;41;12 - 00;13;42;18
Joan Barker
Every day, all day for.
00;13;43;02 - 00;13;43;25
Joan Barker
A month straight.
00;13;44;28 - 00;13;57;26
Liz Kay
What do you think the people should understand about the situation in Afghanistan as the U.S. left that people might not know it about the plight of particularly the folks your colleagues that were left behind, those who had worked with the U.S. military?
00;13;58;19 - 00;14;00;22
Joan Barker
Well, thank you for asking that question.
00;14;00;22 - 00;14;02;04
Joan Barker
Because that's why.
00;14;02;04 - 00;14;03;09
Joan Barker
I started writing and.
00;14;03;09 - 00;14;08;00
Joan Barker
Reaching out to media outlets and writing op-eds as a call to action.
00;14;08;11 - 00;14;11;05
Joan Barker
For our senators, representatives.
00;14;11;28 - 00;14;16;08
Joan Barker
The White House. I was writing op eds, basically saying to everybody involved while.
00;14;16;08 - 00;14;16;20
Joan Barker
We were still.
00;14;16;21 - 00;14;22;20
Joan Barker
Evacuating, you can't leave these people behind. We made a commitment and we need to honor it. And then when the evacuation.
00;14;22;20 - 00;14;24;12
Joan Barker
Was over, I continued to call for.
00;14;24;12 - 00;14;25;24
Joan Barker
Accountability in the congressional.
00;14;25;24 - 00;14;26;12
Joan Barker
Hearings.
00;14;26;12 - 00;14;30;01
Joan Barker
On the Afghanistan withdrawal. And what I tried to make.
00;14;30;01 - 00;14;30;22
Joan Barker
Clear in.
00;14;30;22 - 00;14;31;02
Joan Barker
These.
00;14;31;14 - 00;14;32;28
Joan Barker
In any article I've written, I've always.
00;14;32;28 - 00;14;34;21
Joan Barker
Tried to feature the.
00;14;34;21 - 00;14;35;22
Joan Barker
Story of either one of.
00;14;35;22 - 00;14;36;03
Joan Barker
These.
00;14;36;14 - 00;14;38;24
Joan Barker
Special immigration visa interpreters that got left.
00;14;38;24 - 00;14;40;05
Joan Barker
Behind or the.
00;14;40;05 - 00;14;41;04
Joan Barker
Soldiers that we worked.
00;14;41;04 - 00;14;42;11
Joan Barker
With because.
00;14;42;11 - 00;14;43;01
Joan Barker
These are real.
00;14;43;01 - 00;14;51;03
Joan Barker
Humans that I know, and I think that in the mix of all of it, it becomes a news item that gets lost in the shuffle and.
00;14;51;03 - 00;14;52;08
Joan Barker
People are able I.
00;14;52;08 - 00;14;55;23
Joan Barker
Don't want to say dehumanize, but they're not. If they're not connected to it, it's.
00;14;55;23 - 00;14;56;24
Joan Barker
Easy for, you.
00;14;56;24 - 00;15;03;20
Joan Barker
Know, in the news cycle moves on for people to move on with it. And I've tried to keep a human face on this because I want people to.
00;15;03;20 - 00;15;04;07
Joan Barker
Remember, like.
00;15;04;08 - 00;15;05;05
Joan Barker
What these people are.
00;15;05;05 - 00;15;21;13
Joan Barker
Going through and what they went through. And, you know, I think. There's so much that I could say and that I want to say. I don't know if you have any follow up questions. I don't because I don't want to just go off on a tangent.
00;15;21;14 - 00;15;24;09
Joan Barker
I've been very steeped in all of this and I'm passionate about it.
00;15;24;09 - 00;15;41;03
Liz Kay
But well, I think in one of the pieces you wrote, you definitely highlighted the fact that there was a process for folks to immigrate to the United States. There were these visas were in process and that there were problems with that process.
00;15;41;09 - 00;15;41;23
Joan Barker
Yeah.
00;15;41;23 - 00;15;49;01
Joan Barker
So it's tough because I'm trying not to. I don't want to just go on a rant and sound like I'm critical of the government. I feel like these people did what.
00;15;49;01 - 00;15;50;08
Joan Barker
Any American asks.
00;15;50;08 - 00;15;55;14
Joan Barker
Any legal immigrant to do. They got in a line, a long line. These special immigrant visas take.
00;15;55;15 - 00;15;58;03
Joan Barker
Years to process. They're a multi-step pieces that are.
00;15;58;16 - 00;15;59;18
Joan Barker
Vetted by the State.
00;15;59;18 - 00;16;03;19
Joan Barker
Department, Department of Homeland Security and various programs.
00;16;03;19 - 00;16;05;29
Joan Barker
And initiatives within those departments. It is like.
00;16;06;28 - 00;16;10;07
Joan Barker
Cleary, 14 step process. And a lot of the guys I.
00;16;10;07 - 00;16;12;22
Joan Barker
Worked with were like Step 13 or at Step 14.
00;16;12;22 - 00;16;15;09
Joan Barker
They were at the finish line. So this was double.
00;16;15;09 - 00;16;16;08
Joan Barker
Heartbreak for them.
00;16;16;18 - 00;16;20;14
Joan Barker
To to have to go through this, this waiting process.
00;16;20;14 - 00;16;21;29
Joan Barker
And then, for example.
00;16;22;17 - 00;16;24;14
Joan Barker
one of the fellows I wrote about in my.
00;16;24;19 - 00;16;25;21
Joan Barker
Article, Breaking Hearts and.
00;16;25;21 - 00;16;27;05
Joan Barker
Minds. His final.
00;16;27;05 - 00;16;27;20
Joan Barker
Interview.
00;16;27;20 - 00;16;28;18
Joan Barker
With the U.S. Embassy in.
00;16;28;18 - 00;16;30;08
Joan Barker
Kabul was scheduled for September.
00;16;30;20 - 00;16;34;10
Joan Barker
September. It would have gone and gotten his visa, and he was to the point.
00;16;34;10 - 00;16;34;22
Joan Barker
Where.
00;16;35;03 - 00;16;37;12
Joan Barker
He was asking me and my friends in the US.
00;16;37;12 - 00;16;38;27
Joan Barker
Where should I live? They're asking me where.
00;16;38;27 - 00;16;47;20
Joan Barker
I want to go, Virginia or Texas, you know, like he was that close to me planning his life in the United States. And then the day that Kabul fell, he was like, What do I do? Are they? Am I do?
00;16;47;20 - 00;16;51;16
Joan Barker
I still have my interview, and I had to tell him, there's no interview.
00;16;51;19 - 00;16;53;09
Joan Barker
They're done like they're leaving.
00;16;53;17 - 00;17;03;01
Joan Barker
And so that was really hard. I think when you ask, what do you want people to know? I want the American people to know that there is a huge group of us like thousands of people out there.
00;17;03;09 - 00;17;04;15
Joan Barker
That were doing this work.
00;17;04;26 - 00;17;06;09
Joan Barker
Communicating with these savvy.
00;17;06;09 - 00;17;07;07
Joan Barker
Interpreters and trying.
00;17;07;07 - 00;17;13;06
Joan Barker
To get them information in real time that they couldn't get from our own U.S. government. And I don't say that just to be critical.
00;17;13;06 - 00;17;14;00
Joan Barker
Of our government.
00;17;14;05 - 00;17;16;05
Joan Barker
To me, it comes back to an issue of national.
00;17;16;05 - 00;17;20;02
Joan Barker
Security right now. I wrote about that in several of my articles.
00;17;20;23 - 00;17;22;00
Joan Barker
These people did.
00;17;22;00 - 00;17;22;17
Joan Barker
Everything.
00;17;22;17 - 00;17;25;00
Joan Barker
We asked them to do and they stood by us. They didn't just.
00;17;25;00 - 00;17;26;21
Joan Barker
Work for us. They served a mission.
00;17;26;21 - 00;17;28;27
Joan Barker
That was specifically in place to.
00;17;28;27 - 00;17;29;29
Joan Barker
Combat terrorism.
00;17;29;29 - 00;17;32;12
Joan Barker
Not just to nation build in Afghanistan, but to.
00;17;32;12 - 00;17;33;00
Joan Barker
Secure it.
00;17;33;08 - 00;17;33;17
Joan Barker
So that.
00;17;33;17 - 00;17;34;00
Joan Barker
Terrorists.
00;17;34;00 - 00;17;35;28
Joan Barker
Didn't have a place from which to plan and.
00;17;35;28 - 00;17;37;01
Joan Barker
Operate terrorist attacks.
00;17;37;01 - 00;17;38;00
Joan Barker
Against the United States.
00;17;38;07 - 00;17;39;20
Joan Barker
And these people risked their lives.
00;17;39;20 - 00;17;40;00
Joan Barker
To do.
00;17;40;00 - 00;17;40;16
Joan Barker
That every.
00;17;40;16 - 00;17;43;29
Joan Barker
Time they showed up for work in the morning. Anybody that saw them in a car.
00;17;43;29 - 00;17;44;04
Joan Barker
Or a.
00;17;44;04 - 00;17;45;12
Joan Barker
Taxi, some of them would like.
00;17;45;20 - 00;17;48;01
Joan Barker
Wear disguises to work. They'd bring different.
00;17;48;01 - 00;17;50;15
Joan Barker
Clothes home, so they weren't seen walking in the same clothes.
00;17;50;24 - 00;17;52;06
Joan Barker
We weren't allowed to give our students.
00;17;52;06 - 00;17;53;02
Joan Barker
Homework because they.
00;17;53;02 - 00;17;54;01
Joan Barker
Couldn't bring papers that.
00;17;54;01 - 00;17;56;06
Joan Barker
Had English on it, you know? So it was.
00;17;57;11 - 00;17;58;29
Joan Barker
That airport that everybody.
00;17;58;29 - 00;18;00;08
Joan Barker
Witnessed in August.
00;18;00;14 - 00;18;04;11
Joan Barker
That airport was the military base where I worked. It's a civilian airport on.
00;18;04;11 - 00;18;05;10
Joan Barker
one side and on.
00;18;05;10 - 00;18;05;23
Joan Barker
The other.
00;18;05;23 - 00;18;11;19
Joan Barker
Side. So like, picture it like a big like oval football field cut in half down the middle. one side a civilian airport.
00;18;11;25 - 00;18;14;26
Joan Barker
The other side is military base. And on that military base.
00;18;14;26 - 00;18;15;07
Joan Barker
Which was.
00;18;15;15 - 00;18;16;10
Joan Barker
Technically a natal.
00;18;16;10 - 00;18;20;14
Joan Barker
Military base, there were French, British.
00;18;20;18 - 00;18;22;12
Joan Barker
Australian troops on that side.
00;18;22;15 - 00;18;23;29
Joan Barker
Most of the American military.
00;18;24;06 - 00;18;24;27
Joan Barker
And the Afghan.
00;18;24;27 - 00;18;27;11
Joan Barker
Military and we were all living and working together.
00;18;27;29 - 00;18;30;04
Joan Barker
And so and then we had all these.
00;18;30;12 - 00;18;31;03
Joan Barker
Support staff.
00;18;31;03 - 00;18;32;03
Joan Barker
The local nationals that would.
00;18;32;03 - 00;18;33;03
Joan Barker
Commute every day to that.
00;18;33;03 - 00;18;33;15
Joan Barker
Base.
00;18;34;26 - 00;18;35;28
Joan Barker
They risk their lives.
00;18;36;06 - 00;18;37;00
Joan Barker
To go through those.
00;18;37;00 - 00;18;38;01
Joan Barker
Gates every day.
00;18;38;12 - 00;18;40;26
Joan Barker
And then in August, when the U.S. military.
00;18;40;26 - 00;18;42;06
Joan Barker
Went in to secure that airport to.
00;18;42;06 - 00;18;46;15
Joan Barker
Get the U.S. embassy personnel out. Now these people can't get back into that place.
00;18;46;19 - 00;18;49;15
Joan Barker
That they risked their lives to get into every day. So like the irony wasn't.
00;18;49;15 - 00;18;52;19
Joan Barker
Lost on us that we owe them.
00;18;53;08 - 00;18;54;18
Joan Barker
And we know what they're going through.
00;18;54;18 - 00;18;56;08
Joan Barker
We know that there's something outside.
00;18;56;09 - 00;18;56;28
Joan Barker
That airport.
00;18;56;28 - 00;18;59;03
Joan Barker
Looking at those concrete walls with the.
00;18;59;03 - 00;19;00;05
Joan Barker
Barbed wire on top.
00;19;00;05 - 00;19;01;25
Joan Barker
Saying, I want my life to.
00;19;01;25 - 00;19;03;24
Joan Barker
Go in there every day for these Americans, and now they're not.
00;19;03;24 - 00;19;05;28
Joan Barker
Letting me in. And that was that.
00;19;05;28 - 00;19;09;09
Joan Barker
Was the heartbreaking thing for me. The other thing.
00;19;09;09 - 00;19;12;20
Joan Barker
That people need to know and that I've been saying from the beginning is that.
00;19;12;20 - 00;19;16;17
Joan Barker
There was this interagency failure between the State Department and the Department of.
00;19;16;17 - 00;19;17;21
Joan Barker
Defense that really is.
00;19;18;04 - 00;19;19;26
Joan Barker
The crux of why I took pen to.
00;19;19;26 - 00;19;21;11
Joan Barker
Paper and started writing.
00;19;22;00 - 00;19;28;14
Joan Barker
We were getting notifications from these Afghans. That said, I have an email that I got from the State Department.
00;19;29;11 - 00;19;30;00
Joan Barker
two days after.
00;19;30;00 - 00;19;30;19
Joan Barker
Kabul fell.
00;19;30;20 - 00;19;31;03
Joan Barker
They were getting.
00;19;31;03 - 00;19;37;25
Joan Barker
Emails that said, because you an SUV applicant, you qualify to get out of Kabul. Please come to the.
00;19;37;25 - 00;19;39;03
Joan Barker
Airport for an evacuation.
00;19;39;03 - 00;19;45;16
Joan Barker
Flight. You got this from the U.S. Embassy. KABUL Even though the embassy had had fled the embassy, the Americans.
00;19;45;28 - 00;19;46;27
Joan Barker
They their staff was still.
00;19;46;27 - 00;19;48;16
Joan Barker
Sending out emails to these.
00;19;48;19 - 00;19;50;10
Joan Barker
Special immigrant visa interpreters.
00;19;51;03 - 00;19;51;27
Joan Barker
And they're taking those.
00;19;51;27 - 00;19;52;29
Joan Barker
Emails and showing up.
00;19;52;29 - 00;19;53;19
Joan Barker
At the airport.
00;19;53;25 - 00;19;56;05
Joan Barker
Like risking life and limb and taking their.
00;19;56;05 - 00;19;56;19
Joan Barker
Families and.
00;19;56;19 - 00;19;58;17
Joan Barker
Their small children through Taliban checkpoints.
00;19;58;28 - 00;20;01;06
Joan Barker
There were there was dispersive gunfire.
00;20;01;06 - 00;20;05;05
Joan Barker
And there was mayhem and chaos, and they made it up to the gates. And then the U.S..
00;20;05;05 - 00;20;06;05
Joan Barker
Military was saying to.
00;20;06;05 - 00;20;08;28
Joan Barker
Them, We're not allowed to let you in to no fault of.
00;20;08;28 - 00;20;10;14
Joan Barker
The military. They had orders not.
00;20;10;14 - 00;20;12;15
Joan Barker
To allow anybody in those states that did not have a.
00;20;12;15 - 00;20;13;13
Joan Barker
US passport.
00;20;14;04 - 00;20;14;23
Joan Barker
So it was very.
00;20;14;23 - 00;20;15;18
Joan Barker
Confusing.
00;20;15;18 - 00;20;17;03
Joan Barker
And very stressful and traumatic.
00;20;17;03 - 00;20;22;11
Joan Barker
For these folks that were like when your government is telling me to come here, but then they come in, they're telling me I can't get.
00;20;22;11 - 00;20;24;12
Joan Barker
In and they're texting us for answers.
00;20;24;22 - 00;20;30;07
Joan Barker
And we don't have them. So what do we do? Me, I say, we, me and my team of x English.
00;20;30;07 - 00;20;32;13
Joan Barker
Teachers that had worked there, veterans that I.
00;20;32;13 - 00;20;40;15
Joan Barker
Knew, defense contractors that I knew we were all in these like makeshift Facebook groups of like 1000 people trying to get answers to these Afghans.
00;20;41;03 - 00;20;43;16
Joan Barker
Do you go to the airport? Should we send you to a border?
00;20;43;20 - 00;20;50;09
Joan Barker
How can we help you? You know, we want to save you, but we don't know our government. We don't have answers. Our government's getting on TV and.
00;20;50;09 - 00;20;51;08
Joan Barker
Saying everything's.
00;20;51;08 - 00;20;56;12
Joan Barker
Fine. If they just make it past Taliban checkpoint, they'll get on a plane and we've got information to the contrary.
00;20;57;03 - 00;20;58;19
Joan Barker
So it was a very confusing time.
00;20;58;19 - 00;21;07;04
Joan Barker
And so I bring that up, you know, I don't know what you're going to keep at it, but I think it's the American people didn't have access to that information. And so a lot of us.
00;21;07;11 - 00;21;10;07
Joan Barker
That did decide to write or go to the media or do media.
00;21;10;07 - 00;21;15;04
Joan Barker
Interviews did that because we thought they're not hearing the truth. And again, why is that important?
00;21;15;05 - 00;21;16;04
Joan Barker
It's not just that there.
00;21;16;04 - 00;21;21;14
Joan Barker
Might be dishonesty, but that is something that isn't just going to disappear.
00;21;21;14 - 00;21;22;13
Joan Barker
Because the news cycle.
00;21;22;13 - 00;21;27;23
Joan Barker
Moves on, these Afghans feel abandoned and thrown to the wolves. And so when they look.
00;21;27;23 - 00;21;29;07
Joan Barker
At the American flag or they.
00;21;29;07 - 00;21;30;08
Joan Barker
Think about doing business.
00;21;30;08 - 00;21;31;01
Joan Barker
With the Americans.
00;21;31;01 - 00;21;31;24
Joan Barker
Again, like that.
00;21;31;24 - 00;21;33;22
Joan Barker
That is where I think it's a bigger issue.
00;21;33;22 - 00;21;36;16
Joan Barker
Of our credibility.
00;21;37;08 - 00;21;40;25
Joan Barker
In front of the world. And do we honor commitments to our allies.
00;21;40;26 - 00;21;49;03
Joan Barker
When we say we will? Are we going to make tough decisions when it's diplomatically uncomfortable but necessary? And how is this going to come back.
00;21;49;12 - 00;21;50;19
Joan Barker
To haunt us if we don't.
00;21;50;19 - 00;21;54;21
Joan Barker
Do right by other people in the world? That's what that's what keeps me up at night. Not only.
00;21;55;09 - 00;21;57;20
Joan Barker
That, these people are in danger and they're still there and trapped.
00;21;57;20 - 00;21;59;06
Joan Barker
But this is going to have long.
00;21;59;06 - 00;22;00;14
Joan Barker
Term repercussions for us.
00;22;01;03 - 00;22;10;16
Liz Kay
So it's not just the short term, the immediate, like neat danger that these folks that you know. Yeah. And but it's also the long term impact on our reputation around the world.
00;22;10;24 - 00;22;14;08
Joan Barker
And another thing that's happening now to another consequence of this is.
00;22;14;08 - 00;22;15;13
Joan Barker
That they're so desperate.
00;22;15;20 - 00;22;17;10
Joan Barker
Mean, these people obviously aren't working. They have.
00;22;17;10 - 00;22;19;06
Joan Barker
No jobs. There is no functioning government.
00;22;19;06 - 00;22;20;21
Joan Barker
The military has disintegrated.
00;22;21;03 - 00;22;23;05
Joan Barker
So they're selling everything they own.
00;22;23;15 - 00;22;25;17
Joan Barker
There's no money for people to give them money because.
00;22;25;27 - 00;22;34;10
Joan Barker
The banks are out of money. So they're bartering things. They're they're trading off their wife's wedding jewelry, cars, furniture. And when they get really desperate.
00;22;34;10 - 00;22;38;00
Joan Barker
Now, when ISIS and the Taliban are coming around saying, like, we've got money or.
00;22;38;15 - 00;22;39;11
Joan Barker
Even worse, we can't.
00;22;39;11 - 00;22;40;05
Joan Barker
Pay you. But if you don't.
00;22;40;05 - 00;22;40;22
Joan Barker
Cooperate.
00;22;40;22 - 00;22;41;05
Joan Barker
With us.
00;22;41;09 - 00;22;42;04
Joan Barker
We'll hurt you.
00;22;42;09 - 00;22;47;04
Joan Barker
You know, especially a lot of ex-military. I don't know if you saw in the news, but the Taliban did.
00;22;47;04 - 00;22;48;10
Joan Barker
Stage a military parade.
00;22;48;20 - 00;22;49;29
Joan Barker
About a week ago, and they had.
00;22;49;29 - 00;22;51;02
Joan Barker
All of these MRAPs.
00;22;51;13 - 00;22;55;04
Joan Barker
The tanks going down the street and they had helicopters. The people flying.
00;22;55;04 - 00;22;56;10
Joan Barker
Those helicopters were the.
00;22;56;10 - 00;22;57;23
Joan Barker
Afghan military pilots that had.
00;22;57;23 - 00;22;58;22
Joan Barker
Been coerced into.
00;22;58;22 - 00;22;59;02
Joan Barker
Now.
00;22;59;20 - 00;23;00;13
Joan Barker
Collaborating with the.
00;23;00;13 - 00;23;03;23
Joan Barker
Taliban. And that's that's not something that we want to see happen to me.
00;23;03;24 - 00;23;06;29
Joan Barker
And that's devastating for all of us that that train those pilots.
00;23;07;21 - 00;23;08;07
Joan Barker
And.
00;23;08;07 - 00;23;09;16
Joan Barker
Worked with their military to see.
00;23;09;16 - 00;23;13;02
Joan Barker
Them now telling us, like, yeah, they went to so-and-so's house and they said, You need to.
00;23;13;02 - 00;23;15;11
Joan Barker
Come work for us now. Michael, are they paying.
00;23;15;11 - 00;23;16;01
Joan Barker
Them or feeding them?
00;23;16;18 - 00;23;17;10
Joan Barker
I don't know, but they're.
00;23;17;10 - 00;23;18;25
Joan Barker
Basically like, you have to do that.
00;23;18;25 - 00;23;21;26
Joan Barker
So that's another repercussion is.
00;23;22;29 - 00;23;24;05
Joan Barker
As a tough pill to swallow.
00;23;24;22 - 00;23;31;16
Liz Kay
Joan, if people are listening and have been seeing those news accounts, what are things that people could do to help at this point?
00;23;32;00 - 00;23;36;08
Joan Barker
So. Well, in in an acute way, what people can.
00;23;36;08 - 00;23;40;14
Joan Barker
Do is there are there are a lot of organizations that are trying.
00;23;40;14 - 00;23;44;01
Joan Barker
To get aid into Afghanistan since a lot of Afghans cannot get out.
00;23;44;19 - 00;23;46;12
Joan Barker
So, for example, the world.
00;23;46;12 - 00;23;47;13
Joan Barker
Food program, I know.
00;23;47;13 - 00;23;49;03
Joan Barker
They've been asking, they've been trying to.
00;23;49;10 - 00;23;53;09
Joan Barker
Raise awareness and basically prevent this.
00;23;54;03 - 00;23;54;26
Joan Barker
Mass starvation.
00;23;54;26 - 00;23;56;09
Joan Barker
This fall. Afghanistan is.
00;23;56;09 - 00;23;56;28
Joan Barker
Facing its worst.
00;23;57;06 - 00;23;58;22
Joan Barker
Potential famine in decades, so they've been.
00;23;58;22 - 00;23;59;24
Joan Barker
Asking for support and.
00;23;59;24 - 00;24;02;08
Joan Barker
Donations. I know the UNHCR.
00;24;02;08 - 00;24;03;02
Joan Barker
Is also bringing.
00;24;03;02 - 00;24;04;26
Joan Barker
Aid in. I.
00;24;05;14 - 00;24;06;27
Joan Barker
In my personal networks, have been.
00;24;06;27 - 00;24;11;28
Joan Barker
Collecting money for a food aid program that we have been able to help.
00;24;12;11 - 00;24;13;05
Joan Barker
Operate from.
00;24;13;05 - 00;24;16;11
Joan Barker
Afar. That is successful in Kabul, getting food aid.
00;24;16;11 - 00;24;17;13
Joan Barker
Packages to people.
00;24;17;20 - 00;24;18;23
Joan Barker
So there's there's things like.
00;24;18;23 - 00;24;21;16
Joan Barker
That immediate need addressing immediate needs.
00;24;21;16 - 00;24;23;24
Joan Barker
For addressing hunger and cold.
00;24;24;23 - 00;24;26;18
Joan Barker
But on a broader level, we still need.
00;24;26;18 - 00;24;28;11
Joan Barker
To be pressuring the government to do the right.
00;24;28;11 - 00;24;33;18
Joan Barker
Thing. So not everybody that needs to get out is going to get out with U.S. government assistance.
00;24;34;03 - 00;24;35;10
Joan Barker
But I think a lot of us now turn our.
00;24;35;10 - 00;24;37;24
Joan Barker
Attention to say, OK, so what can be done?
00;24;39;11 - 00;24;41;22
Joan Barker
one other big, glaring.
00;24;41;22 - 00;24;45;05
Joan Barker
Elephant in the room that nobody is addressing is that these folks.
00;24;45;05 - 00;24;47;12
Joan Barker
That are trapped there are in a landlocked country.
00;24;48;02 - 00;24;48;23
Joan Barker
Surrounded by.
00;24;49;01 - 00;24;51;06
Joan Barker
Border countries who are not allowing.
00;24;51;06 - 00;24;54;16
Joan Barker
Them to cross the border. I know Pakistan has a.
00;24;57;03 - 00;25;03;24
Joan Barker
Has in place a policy right now, if you have a visa, you can cross into Pakistan, getting that visa is going to be challenging for anybody that has to go to an.
00;25;03;24 - 00;25;05;25
Joan Barker
Office now run by the Taliban and present.
00;25;05;25 - 00;25;06;11
Joan Barker
Themselves.
00;25;06;19 - 00;25;07;07
Joan Barker
To ask for a.
00;25;07;08 - 00;25;08;04
Joan Barker
Visa to get out.
00;25;08;06 - 00;25;09;09
Joan Barker
Some of those people are being.
00;25;09;09 - 00;25;11;15
Joan Barker
Rolled up and taken away if they find out that they work.
00;25;11;15 - 00;25;12;07
Joan Barker
For the security.
00;25;12;07 - 00;25;13;13
Joan Barker
Services or.
00;25;13;13 - 00;25;14;02
Joan Barker
They were a police.
00;25;14;02 - 00;25;14;13
Joan Barker
Officer.
00;25;14;13 - 00;25;30;13
Joan Barker
With the Afghan civilian services and things like that. So. But, you know, other countries, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, all the other countries that surround Afghanistan, what are we doing as a nation to make sure those countries are honoring their commitments when they said they would be taking in refugees in that in August?
00;25;30;22 - 00;25;33;07
Joan Barker
This is a human rights issue. Humans all.
00;25;33;07 - 00;25;33;23
Joan Barker
Have the right.
00;25;33;23 - 00;25;37;02
Joan Barker
To seek asylum and flee persecution and flee.
00;25;37;02 - 00;25;39;09
Joan Barker
Humanitarian crises, flee starvation.
00;25;39;22 - 00;25;42;24
Joan Barker
And it's you don't often find people.
00;25;42;24 - 00;25;43;10
Joan Barker
That are in a.
00;25;43;10 - 00;25;43;26
Joan Barker
Situation.
00;25;43;26 - 00;25;44;10
Joan Barker
Where they're not.
00;25;44;10 - 00;25;45;06
Joan Barker
Allowed to leave the.
00;25;45;06 - 00;25;48;24
Joan Barker
Country. They're trapped in there under a terrorist regime.
00;25;48;25 - 00;25;56;22
Joan Barker
This is not a legitimate government who is going to treat them well again, like they don't. They can't seek jobs. There's no way to make money there.
00;25;56;25 - 00;25;57;29
Joan Barker
They're facing starvation and.
00;25;57;29 - 00;25;58;22
Joan Barker
Cold and.
00;25;58;29 - 00;26;00;08
Joan Barker
Potential retribution.
00;26;00;08 - 00;26;00;15
Joan Barker
And they.
00;26;00;15 - 00;26;00;29
Joan Barker
Have nowhere to.
00;26;00;29 - 00;26;03;24
Joan Barker
Go. So to your question to come back around.
00;26;04;13 - 00;26;05;04
Joan Barker
Because I can be pretty.
00;26;05;04 - 00;26;06;10
Joan Barker
Passionate and go go off.
00;26;06;26 - 00;26;08;05
Joan Barker
But to your point.
00;26;09;06 - 00;26;12;01
Joan Barker
I think that people, if if they can get in.
00;26;12;01 - 00;26;13;16
Joan Barker
Touch and write to their senators and.
00;26;13;16 - 00;26;17;29
Joan Barker
Congressmen and women to continue to ask the administration.
00;26;18;14 - 00;26;19;09
Joan Barker
To work with those.
00;26;19;09 - 00;26;27;29
Joan Barker
Border countries, to work with the UNHCR and to make sure that people have a way to escape this situation, this unmitigated.
00;26;27;29 - 00;26;28;16
Joan Barker
Nightmare.
00;26;28;22 - 00;26;31;10
Joan Barker
Into which they've been plunged. So that's what.
00;26;31;10 - 00;26;32;02
Joan Barker
I would say on a broader.
00;26;32;02 - 00;26;32;19
Joan Barker
Scale.
00;26;33;17 - 00;26;35;28
Liz Kay
In terms of that longer term solution.
00;26;36;05 - 00;26;38;22
Joan Barker
Yeah. I mean, that's all that we really can do.
00;26;40;07 - 00;26;41;13
Joan Barker
There are still some efforts.
00;26;41;13 - 00;26;41;28
Joan Barker
To get.
00;26;41;28 - 00;26;43;19
Joan Barker
These special immigration visa.
00;26;44;11 - 00;26;45;07
Joan Barker
Interpreters out.
00;26;45;07 - 00;26;45;22
Joan Barker
I know that the.
00;26;45;22 - 00;26;47;03
Joan Barker
U.S. is working with Qatar.
00;26;47;15 - 00;26;51;25
Joan Barker
I think it was The Wall Street Journal or I could be wrong in the outlet, but somebody.
00;26;51;25 - 00;26;54;09
Joan Barker
Was reporting that Qatar did agree to bring some.
00;26;54;09 - 00;26;56;14
Joan Barker
Of these savings in and host them, and I think.
00;26;56;29 - 00;26;58;09
Joan Barker
Qatar has agreed to be our.
00;26;59;16 - 00;27;00;29
Joan Barker
Envoy on the ground in.
00;27;00;29 - 00;27;03;12
Joan Barker
Kabul, since we're obviously not going to send an ambassador there.
00;27;03;24 - 00;27;06;14
Joan Barker
But they might act as a conduit to help some of.
00;27;06;14 - 00;27;06;24
Joan Barker
These.
00;27;06;24 - 00;27;07;14
Joan Barker
Interpreters.
00;27;07;23 - 00;27;11;07
Joan Barker
Who did receive their visas and qualified to come to the US.
00;27;11;29 - 00;27;14;06
Joan Barker
So I'm hoping that.
00;27;14;25 - 00;27;17;21
Joan Barker
We continue to work and use our diplomatic levers to.
00;27;17;25 - 00;27;19;12
Joan Barker
To make those kinds of things happen.
00;27;19;25 - 00;27;20;22
Joan Barker
And then of course, there.
00;27;20;22 - 00;27;27;21
Joan Barker
Is the element of everybody that did make it out and is in the United States. And Americans have been shown overwhelming support.
00;27;27;21 - 00;27;29;14
Joan Barker
For these refugees that are.
00;27;29;14 - 00;27;32;29
Joan Barker
Resettling. So folks can just Google.
00;27;33;08 - 00;27;34;17
Joan Barker
Your local refugee.
00;27;34;17 - 00;27;37;01
Joan Barker
Resettlement office. So for example, if it's in.
00;27;37;01 - 00;27;37;11
Joan Barker
And around.
00;27;37;11 - 00;27;39;28
Joan Barker
PC, Google Providence.
00;27;39;29 - 00;27;40;10
Joan Barker
Resettle.
00;27;40;10 - 00;27;44;17
Joan Barker
Refugees or Boston Refugee Resettlement, there are organizations in every city.
00;27;44;27 - 00;27;48;29
Joan Barker
And municipalities that are assigned to intake refugees, and those are.
00;27;48;29 - 00;27;52;10
Joan Barker
Usually Catholic charities or the I.R.S..
00;27;52;11 - 00;27;54;09
Joan Barker
Or Lutheran services. Those are the.
00;27;54;09 - 00;27;55;25
Joan Barker
Federally contracted.
00;27;55;25 - 00;27;56;14
Joan Barker
Resettlement.
00;27;56;14 - 00;27;57;09
Joan Barker
Agencies.
00;27;57;16 - 00;27;59;00
Joan Barker
That will be processing these.
00;27;59;00 - 00;27;59;20
Joan Barker
Refugees.
00;27;59;20 - 00;28;03;08
Joan Barker
And assigning caseworkers to them. So those organizations.
00;28;03;08 - 00;28;04;11
Joan Barker
Also do a lot of the.
00;28;04;11 - 00;28;04;26
Joan Barker
Good work.
00;28;04;26 - 00;28;06;17
Joan Barker
Like clothing.
00;28;06;29 - 00;28;07;23
Joan Barker
Drives.
00;28;07;23 - 00;28;09;23
Joan Barker
Food donations, offering English.
00;28;09;23 - 00;28;12;15
Joan Barker
Classes and job skills classes to these refugees.
00;28;12;23 - 00;28;17;03
Joan Barker
And a lot of times that's dependent on volunteer work. I actually didn't mention this at.
00;28;17;03 - 00;28;18;00
Joan Barker
All earlier, but that.
00;28;18;00 - 00;28;18;16
Joan Barker
Was how I got.
00;28;18;16 - 00;28;19;27
Joan Barker
My start really started.
00;28;19;27 - 00;28;20;13
Joan Barker
My teaching.
00;28;20;13 - 00;28;23;02
Joan Barker
Career officially was working with resettle refugees in.
00;28;23;02 - 00;28;24;20
Joan Barker
Downtown Hartford, Connecticut.
00;28;25;06 - 00;28;26;04
Joan Barker
While it was pursuing.
00;28;26;04 - 00;28;27;18
Joan Barker
That master's degree that I mentioned.
00;28;28;18 - 00;28;29;11
Joan Barker
So I was working.
00;28;29;11 - 00;28;30;01
Joan Barker
With Somali.
00;28;30;01 - 00;28;30;17
Joan Barker
Refugees.
00;28;30;17 - 00;28;36;24
Joan Barker
At the time, in 2007 and 2008, 2009, and so I can I.
00;28;36;24 - 00;28;41;08
Joan Barker
Can guarantee you that those organizations rely heavily on volunteers and.
00;28;41;08 - 00;28;42;09
Joan Barker
You can do a lot of good.
00;28;42;09 - 00;28;42;18
Joan Barker
Work.
00;28;42;18 - 00;28;48;06
Joan Barker
Just even sitting with people and listening to them and making them feel welcome and not alone because.
00;28;48;06 - 00;28;49;08
Joan Barker
It is scary to come.
00;28;49;08 - 00;28;51;08
Joan Barker
To a new country and you don't know the.
00;28;51;08 - 00;28;53;02
Joan Barker
Language or how things work.
00;28;53;03 - 00;28;53;10
Joan Barker
And.
00;28;53;10 - 00;28;54;15
Joan Barker
Especially in the northeast.
00;28;54;15 - 00;28;56;17
Joan Barker
Like it's cold. So, you know.
00;28;56;17 - 00;28;57;15
Joan Barker
Bringing somebody a pair.
00;28;57;15 - 00;29;00;19
Joan Barker
Of gloves and like having a cup of coffee with them, like I can promise.
00;29;00;19 - 00;29;01;00
Joan Barker
You.
00;29;02;03 - 00;29;02;22
Joan Barker
Does wonders.
00;29;02;22 - 00;29;04;18
Joan Barker
So if people want to support those.
00;29;04;18 - 00;29;05;20
Joan Barker
Agencies and help those.
00;29;05;20 - 00;29;06;21
Joan Barker
Refugees here and.
00;29;06;21 - 00;29;08;24
Joan Barker
Really feel like they're making a tangible impact.
00;29;08;24 - 00;29;09;21
Joan Barker
I would also encourage.
00;29;09;21 - 00;29;12;08
Joan Barker
People to do that because it is incredibly.
00;29;12;08 - 00;29;12;28
Joan Barker
Rewarding.
00;29;13;06 - 00;29;14;03
Joan Barker
And it is incredibly.
00;29;14;03 - 00;29;15;01
Joan Barker
Necessary work.
00;29;15;19 - 00;29;28;15
Liz Kay
But as you said, it's only half the battle, right? Folks getting folks out of Afghanistan is the first half. But then once they're in whatever new country where they land, getting settled and established, there is another huge hurdle to overcome.
00;29;28;26 - 00;29;38;23
Liz Kay
Yeah. John, could you tell us about any experiences like writing for the cowl when you were a student that helped you perhaps prepare you for this advocacy work you're doing right now?
00;29;39;19 - 00;29;42;00
Joan Barker
Yeah. So I actually my.
00;29;42;02 - 00;29;46;12
Joan Barker
Stint at the cowl was I was a features editor, so.
00;29;46;12 - 00;29;47;14
Joan Barker
We did. We published.
00;29;47;14 - 00;29;48;10
Joan Barker
Like poetry.
00;29;48;10 - 00;29;52;29
Joan Barker
And comics and things like that. And then I worked for a while as the managing.
00;29;52;29 - 00;29;55;22
Joan Barker
Editor, which was more like a coordination role where I was.
00;29;55;22 - 00;29;56;09
Joan Barker
Helping the.
00;29;56;09 - 00;29;56;23
Joan Barker
Different.
00;29;57;08 - 00;29;59;11
Joan Barker
Sections of the news and sports sections and.
00;29;59;11 - 00;30;01;04
Joan Barker
Everybody like collaborate and coordinate and.
00;30;01;20 - 00;30;02;02
Joan Barker
Make sure.
00;30;02;02 - 00;30;02;22
Joan Barker
Our marketing.
00;30;02;22 - 00;30;04;16
Joan Barker
Was was on point. That's when.
00;30;04;16 - 00;30;05;23
Joan Barker
Everything was shifting from print.
00;30;05;24 - 00;30;07;24
Joan Barker
Online to. So that was an interesting time.
00;30;08;10 - 00;30;16;05
Joan Barker
But I think that was one of my first times working on a team that dynamically so I wasn't necessarily I wasn't a journalist.
00;30;16;05 - 00;30;18;27
Joan Barker
I wasn't on the news going out and reporting stories.
00;30;18;27 - 00;30;21;12
Joan Barker
But I I like the aspect of working with the.
00;30;21;12 - 00;30;25;11
Joan Barker
Team and helping helping the.
00;30;25;11 - 00;30;25;25
Joan Barker
Newspaper.
00;30;25;25 - 00;30;27;21
Joan Barker
Succeed. So that was.
00;30;27;21 - 00;30;29;03
Joan Barker
Really a cool leadership.
00;30;29;03 - 00;30;30;23
Joan Barker
Role and a cool teamwork.
00;30;30;23 - 00;30;33;17
Joan Barker
Role that those skills I definitely brought into a lot of things that.
00;30;33;17 - 00;30;34;18
Joan Barker
I did later in life.
00;30;35;13 - 00;30;42;29
Joan Barker
And just being familiar with the newsroom and how it works when I was entering the space back in August, you know, thinking like, Hey.
00;30;43;06 - 00;30;44;13
Joan Barker
I want the American people.
00;30;44;14 - 00;30;52;02
Joan Barker
To know what's going on in Afghanistan. I want to give a voice to the voiceless. I want people to hear what my friends in Afghanistan are saying. That's getting thrown.
00;30;52;02 - 00;30;59;07
Joan Barker
Out in the news. It was intimidating, but I think having had that background of working in a newsroom I had.
00;30;59;18 - 00;31;01;02
Joan Barker
I had the courage to just reach.
00;31;01;02 - 00;31;02;19
Joan Barker
Out to opinion.
00;31;02;19 - 00;31;03;08
Joan Barker
Editors.
00;31;03;22 - 00;31;05;01
Joan Barker
And opinion.
00;31;05;01 - 00;31;08;10
Joan Barker
Columnists at different newspapers. I mean, for all the stuff you.
00;31;08;10 - 00;31;09;24
Joan Barker
Saw printed, I mean, I emailed.
00;31;09;27 - 00;31;11;22
Joan Barker
Out to every newspaper outlet in the.
00;31;11;22 - 00;31;13;24
Joan Barker
Country and there's a lot of people that, you know, never.
00;31;13;24 - 00;31;14;07
Joan Barker
Got back to.
00;31;14;07 - 00;31;15;21
Joan Barker
Me. It was such a busy news cycle.
00;31;15;21 - 00;31;18;07
Joan Barker
So but I wasn't, I didn't. It didn't deter me.
00;31;18;08 - 00;31;20;20
Joan Barker
I just was like, Somebody is going to read this and.
00;31;20;29 - 00;31;30;04
Joan Barker
Maybe somebody will print it. And I always ended up finding somebody that would. But it's a very intimidating process, and I don't know that I would have had the guts to do that. Had I not.
00;31;30;17 - 00;31;31;09
Joan Barker
Had a background.
00;31;31;09 - 00;31;31;25
Joan Barker
Working in a.
00;31;31;25 - 00;31;32;10
Joan Barker
Newsroom.
00;31;32;10 - 00;31;34;27
Joan Barker
Like the cowl and also just.
00;31;34;27 - 00;31;39;29
Joan Barker
Being familiar with those journalists who I said to forget. This was before.
00;31;39;29 - 00;31;41;25
Joan Barker
After we started recording, but.
00;31;42;03 - 00;31;48;08
Joan Barker
A lot of the folks that I worked with at the cowl have gone on to have these incredible careers and they've done great things. And so.
00;31;48;22 - 00;31;50;01
Joan Barker
Being able to reach out to.
00;31;50;01 - 00;31;51;24
Joan Barker
Them and say, Hey, do you have contacts?
00;31;51;24 - 00;31;53;07
Joan Barker
Do you have somebody that email this.
00;31;53;19 - 00;31;54;12
Joan Barker
This op ed to you?
00;31;54;12 - 00;31;55;20
Joan Barker
I'm really just trying to.
00;31;55;27 - 00;31;57;08
Joan Barker
Save these Afghans and help.
00;31;57;08 - 00;31;57;26
Joan Barker
These people.
00;31;58;07 - 00;31;59;02
Joan Barker
And they were able.
00;31;59;02 - 00;32;00;18
Joan Barker
To really be a good resource for.
00;32;00;18 - 00;32;00;29
Joan Barker
Me and a.
00;32;00;29 - 00;32;01;19
Joan Barker
Motivator.
00;32;01;19 - 00;32;05;11
Joan Barker
You know? So, yeah, it all came full circle.
00;32;06;23 - 00;32;20;15
Liz Kay
So I mean, just thinking broadly about your overall career and trajectory at this point, if you look back at your time at P.S., are there any other experiences, classes or specific professors that you feel shaped? You know your your career aspirations today?
00;32;21;17 - 00;32;24;25
Joan Barker
Oh, my goodness. So many I had.
00;32;24;25 - 00;32;25;03
Joan Barker
Some.
00;32;25;03 - 00;32;26;10
Joan Barker
Really, really, really great.
00;32;26;14 - 00;32;27;25
Joan Barker
Professors at PC.
00;32;27;28 - 00;32;32;18
Joan Barker
And I think. That one of the lasting legacies of.
00;32;32;23 - 00;32;39;23
Joan Barker
All those classes from served to the history classes I was taking, I just feel like I was always.
00;32;39;23 - 00;32;41;09
Joan Barker
Being pushed to think critically.
00;32;41;19 - 00;32;43;00
Joan Barker
And I mean, we read so.
00;32;43;00 - 00;32;43;27
Joan Barker
Much and I'm one.
00;32;43;27 - 00;32;52;24
Joan Barker
Of these people that likes to analyze a lot of information and see the big picture. So I can't single out a single professor, but.
00;32;53;27 - 00;32;55;00
Joan Barker
I did have.
00;32;56;20 - 00;32;58;17
Joan Barker
I did have a really good time there learning.
00;32;58;17 - 00;32;59;11
Joan Barker
In that way.
00;33;00;15 - 00;33;01;17
Joan Barker
It's hard because I.
00;33;01;17 - 00;33;07;07
Joan Barker
Got out of PC and it's like, what do you do with like a history degree or a French degree? I didn't have like this hard skill.
00;33;07;15 - 00;33;09;24
Joan Barker
But to me, you like being.
00;33;09;24 - 00;33;10;27
Joan Barker
A critical thinker has.
00;33;11;05 - 00;33;11;27
Joan Barker
Has helped.
00;33;11;27 - 00;33;12;14
Joan Barker
Me.
00;33;13;08 - 00;33;14;02
Joan Barker
Whenever I go.
00;33;14;02 - 00;33;14;29
Joan Barker
Into any of these foreign.
00;33;14;29 - 00;33;18;25
Joan Barker
Situations, I'm able to see a lot, a lot of stuff and a little bit of time.
00;33;18;25 - 00;33;21;10
Joan Barker
To make sense of a lot of things at once. And that's what that's.
00;33;21;10 - 00;33;23;29
Joan Barker
What I think. My point.
00;33;23;29 - 00;33;25;03
Joan Barker
Is liberal arts, like a.
00;33;25;03 - 00;33;26;11
Joan Barker
Lot of people, have a lot of things to say about a.
00;33;26;11 - 00;33;28;20
Joan Barker
Liberal, liberal arts degree and where it can get you.
00;33;29;10 - 00;33;31;29
Joan Barker
It's the long game, for sure. I didn't exit.
00;33;31;29 - 00;33;35;00
Joan Barker
PC and like, walk into a six figure job.
00;33;37;27 - 00;33;45;06
Joan Barker
But you know, I do. I do appreciate that. That PC value that because when I when I.
00;33;45;06 - 00;33;50;24
Joan Barker
Got out of high school, I I just wanted to learn. I didn't necessarily have a good career path laid out for me, but.
00;33;52;16 - 00;33;55;17
Joan Barker
Things fell into place and and I'm grateful for.
00;33;55;17 - 00;34;12;23
Liz Kay
That. So this your PC is also celebrating 50 years of women, the 50th anniversary of women enrolling as undergraduates. So this year, the college is celebrating the achievements of women, faculty, students and alumni. How do you think your gender affected your experience at PC?
00;34;12;23 - 00;34;15;21
Liz Kay
If it did? You know, did you have you have any thoughts about that?
00;34;16;21 - 00;34;17;27
Joan Barker
Yeah, when you had mentioned.
00;34;17;27 - 00;34;19;01
Joan Barker
This question earlier, I.
00;34;19;01 - 00;34;20;10
Joan Barker
Was thinking like, I don't.
00;34;20;10 - 00;34;22;14
Joan Barker
Remember it being a hindrance.
00;34;22;14 - 00;34;28;06
Joan Barker
Or anything at all, in fact, I had to really think my female professors were awesome. Again, I feel so bad because.
00;34;28;06 - 00;34;30;04
Joan Barker
It's been I have a horrible memory with names. I can.
00;34;30;04 - 00;34;30;20
Joan Barker
See their.
00;34;30;20 - 00;34;31;19
Joan Barker
Faces, though.
00;34;31;27 - 00;34;35;18
Joan Barker
And I had just some really fantastic female.
00;34;35;18 - 00;34;45;21
Joan Barker
Professors and serve and then one of my favorite history professors. So I love the female staff that I worked with and studied with APEC.
00;34;47;05 - 00;34;50;13
Joan Barker
I mean, there were some funny things looking back at my.
00;34;50;13 - 00;34;54;25
Joan Barker
College experience versus people that didn't go to a religious institution for college.
00;34;54;25 - 00;34;55;26
Joan Barker
Like I remember it was.
00;34;55;27 - 00;34;56;01
Joan Barker
It.
00;34;56;08 - 00;35;01;14
Joan Barker
McAvennie And you know how you had to sign people if a boy came to.
00;35;01;14 - 00;35;07;01
Joan Barker
Study with you, you had to sign the women, things like that. And I saw that to other people. Know some.
00;35;07;01 - 00;35;08;15
Joan Barker
Funny things. I don't know of that.
00;35;08;29 - 00;35;18;21
Joan Barker
It's still like, you know, it's just things that you're like. Right, exactly. So, you know, things that other people are like that really blows their mind.
00;35;18;21 - 00;35;19;01
Joan Barker
Or that.
00;35;19;01 - 00;35;19;13
Joan Barker
We even.
00;35;19;13 - 00;35;22;27
Joan Barker
Had gender segregated dorms. I mean, there were coed.
00;35;22;27 - 00;35;24;13
Joan Barker
Dorms, but there still were if you.
00;35;24;13 - 00;35;27;23
Joan Barker
Chose gender segregated. And so it's.
00;35;28;08 - 00;35;30;13
Joan Barker
Interesting things like that. But again, I.
00;35;30;13 - 00;35;31;09
Joan Barker
Never felt like.
00;35;31;29 - 00;35;32;28
Joan Barker
For me at the time.
00;35;33;03 - 00;35;35;02
Joan Barker
I guess, 2001 to 2004.
00;35;36;08 - 00;35;37;12
Joan Barker
I don't know that gender, really.
00;35;37;25 - 00;35;38;16
Joan Barker
There was definitely not a.
00;35;38;16 - 00;35;40;05
Joan Barker
Negative effect. I'll say that for sure.
00;35;41;16 - 00;36;01;21
Liz Kay
Yeah, so we're recording our conversation before Thanksgiving, and I feel like it must be very difficult in the season of gratitude to stay optimistic when you think about the colleagues that we're left behind. How are you staying positive or how are you maintaining hope during these days?
00;36;03;12 - 00;36;05;22
Joan Barker
I'm glad you asked that question. It is it has.
00;36;05;22 - 00;36;06;14
Joan Barker
Been very, very.
00;36;06;14 - 00;36;10;01
Joan Barker
Trying. The team that I.
00;36;10;01 - 00;36;11;21
Joan Barker
Am working with, the other Americans.
00;36;11;21 - 00;36;15;05
Joan Barker
The veterans, the other contractors, we've we've created a.
00;36;15;13 - 00;36;16;27
Joan Barker
Support network for each other.
00;36;17;09 - 00;36;21;02
Joan Barker
And continuing to be in communication with them, even if we don't all have good.
00;36;21;02 - 00;36;23;21
Joan Barker
News to share with each other has really been.
00;36;24;02 - 00;36;26;03
Joan Barker
A rock and.
00;36;27;03 - 00;36;28;14
Joan Barker
I think over the holidays.
00;36;28;14 - 00;36;32;26
Joan Barker
Some of us have already talked about getting together with each other, especially since it's.
00;36;33;09 - 00;36;36;28
Joan Barker
It's hard to be around other family and friends right now that aren't going.
00;36;36;28 - 00;36;43;03
Joan Barker
Through this, and a lot of us echoed that sentiment like people just don't understand. And so it's important to be with the people that do understand.
00;36;43;29 - 00;36;45;01
Joan Barker
And not to neglect family.
00;36;45;01 - 00;36;47;01
Joan Barker
And friends. I certainly.
00;36;47;19 - 00;36;48;24
Joan Barker
Share with them when I can, but.
00;36;48;24 - 00;36;49;13
Joan Barker
I know when it's.
00;36;50;09 - 00;36;53;04
Joan Barker
You know, this isn't what most people are dealing with.
00;36;53;04 - 00;36;54;24
Joan Barker
So you kind of have this filter on it, but.
00;36;55;00 - 00;36;56;13
Joan Barker
We're there for each other, and.
00;36;56;18 - 00;36;57;22
Joan Barker
I think we will continue to be.
00;36;57;22 - 00;37;01;10
Joan Barker
There for each other. As far as you know, being there for our.
00;37;01;24 - 00;37;03;16
Joan Barker
Friends and colleagues, it's, you know, we.
00;37;03;16 - 00;37;08;02
Joan Barker
Do check in on them. It's it's painful. I think October.
00;37;08;02 - 00;37;08;15
Joan Barker
Was.
00;37;08;23 - 00;37;10;18
Joan Barker
Was when a lot of us kind of came to the.
00;37;10;18 - 00;37;13;07
Joan Barker
Conclusion that, you know, a lot of these folks just aren't getting.
00;37;13;07 - 00;37;16;15
Joan Barker
Out. And again. We're having to.
00;37;16;15 - 00;37;26;02
Joan Barker
Be the ones to tell that to them. You know, they're texting us, they're not texting the president or the people that we're giving press conferences in August and who were making those those big decisions where.
00;37;26;12 - 00;37;27;17
Joan Barker
We're the low hanging fruit here.
00;37;27;24 - 00;37;32;24
Joan Barker
They have access to us and they're texting us for answers. And so that's why I titled that original.
00;37;32;24 - 00;37;33;22
Joan Barker
Op ed Breaking Hearts.
00;37;33;22 - 00;37;34;21
Joan Barker
And minds, because my.
00;37;34;21 - 00;37;36;10
Joan Barker
Friend Darren, who.
00;37;36;10 - 00;37;37;01
Joan Barker
I talk with.
00;37;37;26 - 00;37;38;23
Joan Barker
In Afghanistan.
00;37;38;23 - 00;37;44;08
Joan Barker
I just remember is having this conversation in August, and we're both in tears. And I was like. You know.
00;37;44;24 - 00;37;46;21
Joan Barker
They're not going these Afghans are not going.
00;37;46;21 - 00;37;47;23
Joan Barker
To hear an apology.
00;37;47;23 - 00;37;48;17
Joan Barker
From our government and they're.
00;37;48;18 - 00;37;49;14
Joan Barker
Not going to hear the.
00;37;49;14 - 00;37;50;19
Joan Barker
Truth. We're going to have to be.
00;37;50;20 - 00;37;51;00
Joan Barker
The ones to.
00;37;51;00 - 00;37;53;28
Joan Barker
Tell them that they're not leaving and we're going to have to be.
00;37;53;28 - 00;37;55;00
Joan Barker
The ones to break our hearts.
00;37;55;00 - 00;37;56;16
Joan Barker
And like, we're, you know, so that.
00;37;56;16 - 00;38;01;01
Joan Barker
Was like this phrase in my mind. It's like, that's continue to have to do so.
00;38;02;02 - 00;38;05;10
Joan Barker
But I mean. We're still going to push.
00;38;05;10 - 00;38;05;21
Joan Barker
Forward and.
00;38;05;21 - 00;38;06;24
Joan Barker
Support them in any way that we.
00;38;06;24 - 00;38;07;20
Joan Barker
Can, and we're going to make.
00;38;07;20 - 00;38;08;10
Joan Barker
Sure that this.
00;38;08;26 - 00;38;10;02
Joan Barker
We keep a human face on.
00;38;10;02 - 00;38;12;04
Joan Barker
This and that we continue to try to engage.
00;38;13;00 - 00;38;13;04
Joan Barker
Our.
00;38;13;04 - 00;38;14;04
Joan Barker
Representative.
00;38;14;27 - 00;38;15;11
Joan Barker
Our elected.
00;38;15;12 - 00;38;16;06
Joan Barker
Representatives.
00;38;16;06 - 00;38;20;07
Joan Barker
And our government and try to continue to call for accountability.
00;38;20;07 - 00;38;22;17
Joan Barker
And continue to rely on each.
00;38;22;17 - 00;38;22;25
Joan Barker
Other.
00;38;22;26 - 00;38;23;21
Joan Barker
So thank you for.
00;38;23;21 - 00;38;25;11
Joan Barker
Asking that question because it does mean a lot.
00;38;26;11 - 00;38;38;22
Liz Kay
Well, John, we will definitely include some of the links to some of your your op-eds with our with our podcast when we share it, so that people want to follow up and learn more about the experiences and the work that you've been doing.
00;38;39;01 - 00;38;42;24
Liz Kay
It's been really wonderful. Thank you chatting with you today. Thank you so much for joining us.
00;38;43;05 - 00;38;49;03
Joan Barker
Thank you, guys. I hope I was able to offer something insight. I really look forward to seeing you. Thank you so much.
00;38;49;24 - 00;39;01;14
Liz Kay
Subscribe to the Providence College podcast in all the usual places, including iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Google Play and Spotify, as well as your smart speaker if you like what you hear. Please review and share with others. Thanks for listening and go friar's.
