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Michael Hagan
Hello and welcome to the Providence College Podcast. I'm Michael Hagan from the class of 2015 and I'm joined by producer Chris Judge from the class of 2005 Today we're joined by Eva do so a recent graduate from the class of 2022 and the author of the children's book Rene finds are called Mindfulness Tools to focus and be present published in December of 2021.

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Michael Hagan
We'll discuss the inspiration behind the book the joys and challenges of writing for children's audiences and if his experience at Providence College. Ava, thanks for joining us.

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Ava Dussault
Thank you for having me.

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Michael Hagan
So just to start, congratulations on the recent publication of your book. Could you tell me a little bit about what inspired you to write Rene Find Circle?

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Ava Dussault
Yeah. So during the heat of the pandemic, I guess I'd say my mom had started making her own resources for her students because she is a specialist in an elementary school and she does social emotional learning, and she was making videos and different handouts and all sorts of stuff. And she had said, maybe we should make a business together because we're both children's yoga teachers.

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Ava Dussault
And we started a website and we made some products. We had an artist kind of put together our designs, and we had coloring books, yoga cards, worksheets, things like that. And I had said it would be pretty cool to have a book on there, but I didn't think of it as an actual physical book. I just thought like it would be something that I typed up, and the illustrator we had been using would kind of do quick sketches, and it could be something that parents or teachers or yoga teachers could just print out.

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Ava Dussault
But then I actually decided to make it like a real book, and I went through with it the whole next year.

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Michael Hagan
Hmm. So what's the basic premise of the story? How does it go?

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Ava Dussault
So it's a little girl that is always thinking about more than one thing. At the same time, she's worried about what she's going to do later in that day or the next day or that night. And she can't focus in school because she's so busy thinking about so many things. And so her mom tells her that there's a mindfulness for us with a mindfulness fairy who can teach her tools to calm down and be present.

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Ava Dussault
So she takes Rene to the forest and she learns five mindfulness tools. And then finally, realizes what it means to be present. And then she ends up teaching them to her classmates as well. Hmm.

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Michael Hagan
And was there any particular inspiration for the character of Rene.

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Ava Dussault
She sees me. That's my middle name. Oh, good. My name is Eva Rene. So I based it off of myself as a child.

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Michael Hagan
Oh, that's wonderful. So. So you mentioned mindfulness tools that Rene learns in the forest from the mindfulness fairy. You said that there are about five of them. What are some of these tools and how are they woven into the narrative?

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Ava Dussault
Yeah, so it's pretty concrete. So kids can actually practice as you go along in the story. And it's very repetitive. So they know that the next tool's coming up because it starts and ends the same way. So the first one she learns is actually from her mom and it's barely breathing and it's basically just deep breathing. But for kids, we kind of describe it as a balloon blowing up and deflating.

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Ava Dussault
So that's the first tool And then she goes into the mindfulness for us with the mindfulness fairy and the mindfulness, very continuous, teaching her the tools. The first one that she teaches her is yoga. She learns a few yoga poses. Then she learns how to do a body scan and be aware of how she's feeling in the present.

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Ava Dussault
Moment. So she analyzes every part of her body, and then she learns how to be mindful of her senses around her. So it's called the Five Senses Exercise, and it's basically looking at where you can see what you can feel. You can smell, touch and taste if applicable to that situation. And then she learns positive affirmations or words that you say to yourself.

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Ava Dussault
And then after that, she realizes what it means to be calm and present. So those are the five.

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Michael Hagan
So I know, I know children are the intended audience, but I'm sitting here thinking, you know, I could use a visit from the mindfulness fairy. Do you see the lessons in the book as being applicable to adults?

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Ava Dussault
Yeah, it's definitely applicable to adults. A bunch of my friends out of the book and say that they love it. The tools that I put in the book that are mindfulness tools are actually kind of a combination of my favorite ones that I learned and my kids yoga teacher training, which we also did for ourselves as well, because our teacher would always say you have to have some type of practice before you can do it with children.

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Ava Dussault
And then I also did the Mindful Schools program, and some of those tools I learned there as well. But again, the whole foundation for mindful schools, before you can even do the school training, you have to do a mindfulness training for yourself. Mm hmm.

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Michael Hagan
So an illustrated children's book, of course, involves more than just writing. How did you go about establishing a relationship with both an illustrator and a publisher?

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Ava Dussault
I became to know a lot of people that were well known in the children's yoga world. After I did my yoga training which was during the pandemic, the woman that trained me still has an online shop, but she had to unfortunately close her business because she had an injury. So she couldn't teach yoga anymore. But she actually hired me after I trained with her and I wrote lesson plans for her website, and I did her social media, and I helped run trainings that were in the future.

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Ava Dussault
And so through that, I met a lot of well-known people in the industry because she was well-known and she would introduce me to different names. And there's one person who I had followed before and kind of met through her. Her name was Betty Lauria, and she self-published a children's yoga story It's called Lucinda's Magical Yoga Adventure. And she actually has a program where you know, she sees if you're a good fit for her and you kind of talk with her before.

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Ava Dussault
But she has a mentoring program where she edits your book, helps you with the illustration process, and finding an illustrator helps you with the publishing process. So it's self-published, but she edited it and helped me with that entire process. And it was especially helpful because she was coming from the same space as me. She's a children's yoga teacher, and she knew what all the mindfulness tools were.

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Ava Dussault
So she really resonated with the book. Mm hmm.

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Michael Hagan
It sounds like this. The children's yoga community is it sounds like a very supportive and close knit kind of community. How did you and your mom get involved in that space?

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Ava Dussault
I would say my mom has been in it for a lot longer than me because she's been doing her job for about nine years now. Working in the school, she does social emotional learning, mindfulness and yoga. It's a special. But once I got trained, I'm more tech savvy than her. So once we started our business, we started following other people who have similar business models.

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Ava Dussault
And surprisingly, no one's really near each other because it's not that big of a thing yet. There's no one really in our state that does it or near us. We're friends with a lot of people from different countries or different areas in the world, but they have group chats on Instagram or Facebook, and I know how to work with social media more than my mom's.

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Ava Dussault
So I joined those groups, and we've met some people and communicated with some people. And I think working for that company that I did it for so long she was very prominent for the last 20 years. She's done this forever. So she had introduced me to a lot of people as well, including other authors of children's yoga and mindfulness books.

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Michael Hagan
That's awesome. So what did you do to help you see your own work through the eyes of a child? Were there children that you shared your ideas and story with as you were writing? What was that process like? How would you test it with your audience? Well.

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Ava Dussault
I am with kids most of the time because I was an elementary and special education major. But I do summer camp, summer school. I just finished my last day of school today, so I'm with kids all the time, and I've actually tested doing some of the mindfulness tools and yoga with them. They like it because it's a different type of brain break than they're used to getting.

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Ava Dussault
And I use some of their reactions as what Renee says like sometimes she'll say, I feel more calm or I feel happy or present. And that's what some of the kids actually said, too. So I kind of use that some of the kids said so.

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Michael Hagan
So you mentioned that you were an elementary and special education major as an undergrad, which congratulations on your graduation, by the way, that that was just recently. So turning to yourself a bit. When did you when did you decide that you wanted to study elementary and special education?

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Ava Dussault
I would say I've always liked working with kids, but I didn't know what I liked doing with them, if that makes sense. So I came in as an elementary and special education major, and I actually also majored in psychology. I didn't know if I wanted to do counseling with kids or different types of ABA therapy or something like that.

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Ava Dussault
So I had I had tried out a bunch of things, but I really liked that. What I'm doing right now, I get to kind of combine both psychology and education.

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Michael Hagan
Tell me a little bit about your path to Providence College.

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Ava Dussault
Well, when I toured the school, it was the best tour ever, and the first school that I fell in love with and I was like, Of course I want to go there. So I obviously accepted it as soon as I got in and yeah, it's been great. It was awesome.

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Michael Hagan
So great. There's one word that you'd use to describe your experience. What are what are a few other words that you'd use to describe your experience at Providence College?

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Ava Dussault
I'd say I made a lot of friends. It was obviously very fun. I feel like this year, though, and last year were different because last year you couldn't really hang out with the people that you necessarily wanted to be with unless you were like outside in a mask or something crazy. And this year, all of the education is students.

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Ava Dussault
And I think people don't remember this all the time, are teaching all day. So I don't I didn't really go to Providence this year. I would go to night class and be drained by the time I went because I was at a school from 730 to 330. So I just want to go to class and then go home after.

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Ava Dussault
So it was different the last two years, I'd say. But I still got to do some things and I'm really close with all the people that were education majors. I'd say more than psychology because we all have this common experience and schedule and we could all do things together.

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Michael Hagan
That is, yeah. I had friends who studied both elementary and secondary education when we were undergrads here at P.S. and it is, while tremendously fulfilling, it is intensely demanding especially when it comes to student teaching. So when you weren't studying elementary education or writing children's books or studying psychology, or being in the classroom, what kinds of things were you involved in, on or off campus as an undergrad?

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Ava Dussault
So my freshman year, I really liked going to the gym and going to the fitness classes and the classes that I took there. Unfortunately, the people that taught them were seniors graduating, so I ended up getting trained in high intensity interval training and Zumba, and I've taught fitness classes for the past three years at the gym. So I've done that.

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Ava Dussault
And this year we kind of kick started a monthly wellness program where we'd go into the the Slaven atrium and me and my boss at the gym, we would do some type of wellness activities. So we did like essential oil sprays one week we did make your own lotion one time. We did vision boards, all different things like that.

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Ava Dussault
And then I was a big member of Dance Club. I was the Treasurer my junior year and the vice president this year.

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Michael Hagan
Were there any professors whether from elementary ed or psychology or another department? Were there any professors who were particularly influential on you or who maybe have some fingerprints on Renee? Rene, I saw calm, whether in a direct or indirect way.

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Ava Dussault
Yeah, I would definitely say those a couple one of them actually retired at the end of our junior year, but agreed to stay and be my student, teacher, supervisor and my best friend, Griffin's supervisor. So we were super grateful for that. Her name was Susan Galinsky, and I actually named her after name the teacher after her in the story.

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Ava Dussault
So that was one professor and she always taught us classes on literacy and she'd read children's books to us every once in a while. And I just loved that. And I think that's when I started reading more children's books and remembering that they exist again. Because I had to use them for my lessons. So I definitely say her.

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Ava Dussault
And then these two professors didn't really have an impact on the book, but definitely on teaching in general and how I view my classroom and what I'm going to do. But Dr. Alcock and Rodriguez, they were some of the best professors. They were so good at what they did, and they really prepared me. And then my advisor, Dr. Ryan, too.

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Ava Dussault
She was always so helpful, and she loved hearing about the mindfulness stuff. I actually went to her classroom management class a few times and spoke about it and would do some stuff with that. So we had a really good relationship.

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Michael Hagan
So you said the book was published in December. How has it been received since then? What what praise or feedback have you received?

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Ava Dussault
Everyone that's reviewed it has said that they really like it. I've gotten really good reviews so far and I've read it to my last student teaching placement in Seekonk. I went back just a few weeks ago and read it to all the kids that I service. That was my special education and placement, and they loved it. And we're so into doing the activities.

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Ava Dussault
My first grade class this year, I loved it too, and I actually gave a copy to a second grade teacher in the building and her class is obsessed with it, and I guess they fight over the book during independent reading time. The one thing I want to do more and hopefully I'll have time to do it soon is market it and actually kind of spread the word more because I feel like I didn't tell anybody that I was really writing a book actually.

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Ava Dussault
And then when I when the date came for it to be published, I posted and was like, Oh, by the way, I published a book. So it was kind of a surprise to a lot of people, and I kind of wish I had more time to market it, but this spring semester is just so busy with teaching, and so maybe now I'll have more time to do some marketing and bring it to different places and things like that.

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Michael Hagan
Are there unique challenges involved in writing children's literature that are different from the challenges of writing for an adult audience?

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Ava Dussault
I would say the language that you use, because the one thing that I did the most or had to do the most was I had to go back and kind of make the words more kid friendly and you have to kind of make the books predictable so kids keep an interest in them. That's why after every mindfulness tour, the fairy asks Renee how she feels and she gives a response, and then she says what the next tool is.

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Ava Dussault
It's predictable, and the kids can kind of read along. But the first, however many drafts were not like that. I didn't even consider some of those things until I started working with Betty.

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Michael Hagan
And I'm realizing I meant to ask you at the beginning, but I'll ask you now, where is home for you?

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Ava Dussault
I'm in Massachusetts, so kind of near Worcester.

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Michael Hagan
OK, so what advice would you have for other aspiring children's authors, people who might be thinking about writing a children's book, or people who might hear this podcast and think, you know what, I that sounds great, I want to do this?

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Ava Dussault
I would say definitely just do it and write it because you have to start somewhere. I started with like one piece of paper and like the story on three lines, and then I just kept going from there. It was one page, and then once I realized, OK, this is what I want to do, I kind of researched and was like, OK, now I need to break it up on different pages and where are you putting the words on the page?

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Ava Dussault
But you have to just start or else it's hard to get all the pieces moving. And I would also say take it one step at a time. I feel like at first I really wanted to rush through it and get it done. But it actually took a full year. I started it January 1st, and it was published on Christmas Eve.

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Michael Hagan
Wow. So again, congratulations on your recent graduation in May. What does the future hold for you.

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Ava Dussault
I will be working at my children's yoga studio with my mom. We have a small little space in Worcester and we do kids yoga classes and camps, so I'll be doing that and then I'm going to end to court for my masters. It's a fellowship yep. So basically the school that I work at pays my tuition, so I get free grad school.

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Ava Dussault
So I'm doing a master's in social and emotional learning, and next year I'll be working in a school in Everett and I'll be working with the cognitively and socially delayed students in kindergarten to eighth grade. There's a room for each grade and I'll be doing mindfulness, yoga and social skills with them.

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Michael Hagan
Well, that sounds like a tremendous opportune ATI, and I'm confident that you will that you will do very, very well in grad school and do it do amazing work with those children. Well, Ava, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. It's been a pleasure talking to you and learning about your book. Rene finds her column, which just to make a plug for, for the book that is available on Amazon.

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Michael Hagan
And where are there other places where people can find the book or sorry, I called you Renee. Are there other places where people can find the book?

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Ava Dussault
But right now it's only on Amazon, but I'm hoping to get it into some children's book stores soon.

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Michael Hagan
OK, so stay on the lookout at local children's bookstores. But be sure to check out Rene, find XCOM on Amazon, perhaps a great birthday or Christmas gift for a child that you know, so whoever. Thank you again. This has been really, really wonderful. And congratulations again.

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Ava Dussault
Thank you so much.

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Michael Hagan
Subscribe to the Providence College podcast and all the usual places, including iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Google Play and Spotify, as well as your smart speaker. If you like what you hear, please review and share with others. Thanks for listening and go Friars.