Hello and welcome to the Providence College podcast, I'm your host, Liz Kaye, and I'm joined by producer Chris Jones of the Class of 2005 here in the Providence College podcast, we bring you interesting stories from the fryer family.

This week, we're talking with Amy Senhor and Meghan, who worked in the Office of Admission. Sam Blair is a senior associate dean of Admission and has been on the mission team for nine years. This spring, she became an alum herself after completing her MBA through the Providence College School of Business.

Work is an associate dean and admissions coordinator of Midwest Recruitment. She's based in the Chicago area and joined the PC in 2019. Amy and Meghan, thanks so much for joining us.

Thanks for having us. Thank you.

It feels hard to believe that we're in the midst of recruiting the class of 2026 already. What are some of the questions you're getting from students and families on the road these days?

I think one of the the most interesting things is how normal this fall has felt, given we're all wearing masks and social distancing and there's some restrictions where I am at recruiting wise. And so a lot of it has felt just very kind of normal run of the mill asking about programs and coming to visit campus.

And it's great to see how excited students are. I think one of the things that I was maybe a little bit apprehensive about going into this fall was that students might feel nervous about traveling further distances to go to college, and that really hasn't been the case.

There's a lot of Midwestern students excited about the prospect of attending PC. So.

Yeah, I have to agree, I think, for both our in-person visits and our virtual visits because we're still living in a bit of a hybrid world in terms of recruitment. The students themselves and the family members, when they're involved, they they seem excited to have a quote unquote normal college search experience.

It feels much more much, much more normal. But the anxiety that I'm I'm sensing from the students and families is more your typical. I'm nervous about going to college and not being admitted anxiety as opposed to the Oh my goodness.

How is your college handling COVID? People are really looking forward to a normal life.

I'm so glad to hear your treat. The students are trading ordinary, ordinary, everyday anxiety for life, including pandemic. Like, that's really fabulous for everybody.

Everybody agreed.

So we're talking in mid-October, and deadlines for early action and early decision are coming up very soon, November first. Could you talk a little bit about the differences of with early action and an early decision and what those?

Talk a little about the differences and some of the benefits for students who choose early decision one or two?

Sure. I can start making the early decision and early action. I always find it easiest to define for families by the names themselves. Early action is acting early. It simply means that the student is ready to apply and submit their application early as opposed to early decision, of course, right where they are deciding on their college choice

early. The student needs to be sure that this is the place that they want to be. If their early decision, they're submitting that one application with the signed contract by student, parent or guardian and, you know, high school counselor saying that yes, this is where they want to be, whether it's PC or whatever other school is, that

one contract is that one agreement. So that decision has to happen early. I think there's a great benefit to applying early decision if the student and family has had the time to do their research, if they have had the chance to really understand who they are as as well, the students understand who they are as students and

what they want in a college community, and they've had the, I'll call it, a luxury or privilege of visiting schools and being able to experience those places. If you've had that chance, early decision is great because you're able to put yourself forward and say, Hey, I want you, I want to be at your school.

I want to be in this case of Brier, and we acknowledge that we give that a nod in the admissions process. There's no there's no hiding that at all. However, I would say that if a student isn't sure or if there are some serious financial questions within the family that they really do need to look at all

of their options and simply act early. There is no shame in waiting. You know, I mean, the worst thing I would have ever seen when I worked at a high school for a few years was the student who came in two months after they had gotten their early decision commitment and weren't sure that's where they wanted to

be anymore. And that was heartbreaking because their friends all still had choices and they were they were done and they didn't know if they wanted to be done. Megan, I don't know if you have anything that happened.

Well, it's so interesting. My background, Liz, I I came from a couple of schools that didn't offer early decision. So Providence was the first place that I've worked, where that was an application deadline that the school offered. And so I think one of the the kind of coolest things to me is to see how excited those students

are to apply early decision. So they're they seem very ready to be a part of the community. And I feel like our office does a good job of being transparent about how it works and what the differences are.

I really respect that role once. And Amy Stambaugh, who is who's my boss at P.S., have done work to ensure that students understand, you know, you get the same scholarship review, no matter what deadline you use to apply to the financial aid.

Consideration is the same. You'll hear a little bit earlier, which is always a great thing, but it provides an. A wave for students who are ready to make that commitment, who have done their research and done their homework, kind of like what Amy was saying to be able to make that step a little bit earlier and hopefully

feel a little bit better, less stress, less anxious because they've got their decision in hand in the fall of senior year.

So you can so if they apply by November first, when do early decision and early action folks get their get their answers.

Yet so early decision students get their answer back within a month and we try to get it back to them by the very, very beginning of December. Maybe a few days before December first, but we can't promise that at this moment depends on volume and early action students.

We tell them they'll have it by the holidays. And then, of course, early action students don't need to commit to us until May first, right? They have all of that time to compare their financial aid packages, look at their other offers and their other schools, come back and visit again, see how great it is here and make

that decision later and the early decisions students need to get back to us. We give them about two weeks. I think it is this year to submit that track because in theory, if they've done it the right way, they know this is where they're coming, they just need to do the paperwork.

Now, Amy, you when we were talking about or the decision, you touched on the financial consideration, that's part of that decision and there are really there are students at PC from all different economic backgrounds, which is part of the college's mission.

So can we talk about affordability? What do you say to prospective students and their parents if they feel like they can't afford PC?

Yeah, you know, we we really try to express to students and families at UT for all application deadlines that we hope that the sticker price, as it's called of the college is not going to hold them back from applying.

We really hope that they will, you know, take a deep look and see all that the college has to offer and complete those financial aid forms. We urge people to do it by the deadlines we use the FAFSA, the Free Application for Federal Student Aid and the C as as profile and if they get those in by

the respective deadlines for the application deadlines, they will get their financial aid package. They will be considered for merit based scholarship. Separate from the financial aid process, right there are there's a robust multicultural scholars program as well here at DC that can cover half tuition, full tuition, depending on the student's financial needs.

So our hope is that they will work with us and work with our partners upstairs in the financial aid office, with our financial aid counselors as well. And they break down the applicant pool by alphabet and, you know, work individually with students to really try to make it as you just suggested, it's part of our mission, right

to try to make it an affordable place. Realistically, it won't be for everybody, and we're sorry for that, but we really do try the best we can to make it so.

What kinds of questions do you get from families about this, and Megan, I'm wondering, especially if someone is kind of newer to learning about Providence? You know, just getting aware of what what the school is all about and what kinds of questions do people ask about?

I think, generally speaking, we have a lot of families that we work with where finances are a concern. I think we could have a whole other episode about the cost of college and the cost of higher education. But I think families, generally speaking, have us have an understanding.

It is an investment and we need to think about it that way. one thing that I've seen, especially recently, is kind of a two fold approach from families that I am working with. Yes, it is questions about what kinds of scholarships are available.

You know what might be eligible for? Am I a good fit in terms of admission and for scholarships? What kinds of financial aid do you offer? How do you financially support students? But the thing that's been interesting and this is a recent, somewhat recent trend, at least in my experiences, is that I think families have also started

to make the connection to you and kind of connect the dots with, OK, but what's the return on my investment? I'm going to turn over this money to you. I'm going to make this big investment right. It's probably the the second biggest thing you will purchase in your lifetime or first if you don't buy a home, right

? And so what am I getting out of this? And that's where really we have the ability to shine. We have incredible retention rates. We have incredible graduation rates. Eileen and her team and career services do an excellent job of career preparation and the placement rates really speak for themselves.

And that's been something that I feel like. I can be super confident with families and explaining and kind of walking through. Yes, this is investment. Yes, we can walk you through. We have an excellent financial aid team, so they can kind of help with the understanding of what is this going to look like and how do we

how do we make these payments and do all of these these things to make sure that it is affordable? But on the flip side of that, they the family should feel confident in knowing that their students are going to have a really robust and enriching college experience at Providence College and be able to go out and change

the world and make a difference and make an impact because we're giving them all of those opportunities to be able to do so.

So it's quite.

Fantastic. Exactly.

So let's shift a little bit and talk geography, you know, students are coming to Providence College from everywhere. I think alumni from 30 or 40 years ago would be a little surprised to learn that, you know, Rhode Island is not the hometown like the home of most students do not come from Rhode Island in Massachusetts anymore, but

you don't think they're coming from all over. Meghan, you're doing such important recruiting work from Chicago. Can you tell us a little bit about why this is an important initiative for the college?

So it's actually part of the strategic plan. There are families that sometimes I get in the weeds with, like explaining like this is an important thing for us. We want more students from the Midwest, and they're like, Why is she explaining the strategic plan of the college?

Because I think it's important to know that at an administrative level, at a leadership level, there has been a recognized commitment of we want our reach to grow beyond the scope of New England and the Northeast. And so I started working in 2019 in the hopes of continuing to build on the work that was already done in

the Midwest for my amazing and wonderful colleagues. So trying to ensure that by putting someone physically here and we have someone out in California, Southern California doing the same work. Marty Vonn, the two of us are because we can be physically there.

We have easier access to students, to families, to counselors in meeting with them and kind of walking them through what it's like to be a student and how to get them from the the West Coast or the Midwest, back to back to Rhode Island.

And it's been a fun experience so far. It's been a unique challenge, but we have great name recognition in the Midwest. We have an a wonderful group of alumni in the Chicago area who I was lucky enough to to finally be able to meet.

We did a boat tour this summer with the alumni and the incoming freshmen students, and I think our incoming freshmen recognized like this is truly a community and these people really love getting together and kind of sharing their their experiences.

It's a very strong alumni network, especially in the Midwest.

So it's really fun to be able to travel and to go to different receptions in different parts of the country. And, you know, to hear people shouting, Go fryer's, when you have that baseball cap on at the airport, at, you know what, six in the morning trying to get your flight after a conference and you're not quite

awake yet.

But it's, you know.

There's that for our families. We all know that if we're here on campus to work, you know, having been in media, it's been a pleasure for me to work with them to have now that we have to be right there and to hear from a colleague at a high school out in the area like, Hey, I just

met Megan or had just met Marty and Liz. What Megan hasn't shared yet is that she's the past president of the Illinois Association for College Admission Counseling, so that puts the name of Providence College selfishly up there on the big screen at Illinois events and at our national level.

And she actually, which was voted in by her colleague to represent all of the presidents from the 23 associations at our national level on our national board for admissions. So that's huge. I mean, it speaks to her leadership, of course, and we're super proud of her.

But you know, that helps, that helps the college as well. And it it does continue to push forward for us and for the administration that call to be a national institution. I just needed to brag about her, too, so.

Feel free to take any opportunities you need. We can't thank you for that. All right. So we talked a little bit about the strategic plan. The strategic plan is also really clear about the college's efforts to build an inclusive community here on campus and by inviting students from a wide.

And varied backgrounds to come and study and be part of our community. Can you talk a little bit about what admissions role is in achieving this goal?

Yeah, you know, that's that's a role that is something that we take very seriously and we were really glad to see, you know, having been here for a little while now, I've been really glad to see that written into the picture, you know, and to be able to to see it as something that the college does take

seriously. It's not easy for our students who aren't one of the many write in who are part of a handful. Whether that handful means you're from, you know, a foster system or in socioeconomically, you are kind of that lower rungs of the economic spectrum here or you are, you know, a student of color or you are an

immigrant, an immigrant student who does not have, you know, U.S. citizenship there all the different wide varieties of folks looking at their own identity, whatever it might be. So we take it seriously in our office. How can we better educate ourselves to support for each other, doing the work, to support our colleagues, our colleagues of color, our

colleagues from different backgrounds? And then how do we articulate the mission of the college truthfully and welcoming to the families? I don't know that that was really English right there welcoming me. But, you know, sometimes I think as a predominantly white institution, it can be a challenge.

You know, white girl like me shows up in Harlem to talk to some of these students, and they're in the majority where they are and to talk about them being in the smaller percentage of students on campus can be challenging.

And we want to be encouraging folks and hope that some of them are brave enough to come help us continue to move forward right and to be strong. But how are we supporting them and helping me see this and feel like they're part of the family to?

I'm. We have had success in recruiting students from underrepresented communities. What do you hear from students, from those communities and their families about when after they visit and apply, what attracts them to PC?

That's a great question.

Yeah.

I would say that the students that I work with and this is obviously a little different because I think some of the students that I work with, where they live, they kind of want to get out of the Midwest.

So this becomes a place where it is it. They appreciate that Providence College is in a city right, that there's stuff to do that they can experience. Another part of the country. But in a smaller school environment, you know, students that come from diverse backgrounds, students of color, especially that are that are traveling to Rhode Island, I

think have already made that commitment in their mind. Like, I'm to Amy's point, I'm going to be brave and kind of take this challenge on because I want to experience something different than what I know in the Midwest somewhere.

So a lot of their questions are trying to ensure that, but they will have the support that they need and be taken care of when they get to campus, right? We're really the door into or the gateway into the campus, but our we're not as connected to students as completely day to day as their advisors and their

resident assistants at career services and all these different offices that support our students. And that's why all of us playing a part becomes so important because we want to ensure to Amy's point that we provide them all this great information that is factual and truthful and helpful so that they feel confident and making the decision that that

our school is the right choice for them.

And I think the students and families who do visit you, I mean, I think once they're here and once they're part of the community, they see that, you know, they're there are supports here and that there are students who've come before who have said, Hey, let me turn around and help those coming with, I think, creation of

things like the dream coaches and fire foundations. And, you know, the peer mentor program PMP and Horizons. All of these students are part of something bigger than themselves, and they want to turn around and they want to give back to.

Right. I've been stepping in in the absence of our coordinator of Diversity Outreach to work with our diversity outreach team, our students who help us to do some of this work in their juniors and their seniors who said, Hey, you know, they they knew the questions that they wanted answered when they were going through the admissions process

. And they are unbelievably generous with their time and energy to help us then offer themselves up to answer those students questions as well and to kind of tell them like, Hey, here's where you go, get your hair done in the city, or here's where we can get some really good food, or these people are great resources.

If you're a first generation student, have a first gen mentor. So I'm indebted to our students for learning to give up themselves in that way. I'm to show you show others around as well.

So this just thinking, shifting our thoughts a little bit about how you make a class, when you start recruiting applications and start really reading those applications and trying to see who wants to become part of the family. It's interesting to note that this year's incoming class was the most balanced gender wise in many years.

We got closer to 5050 than we have in at least a handful of years. What are some of the things that you're considering when you start that application process and you start thinking about how to build a class?

Yeah, we have our big reset meeting. That's what I like to think of it as in my brain. I like that you got that.

That feels that feels appropriately named. Yeah.

Is it it? So for folks who are saying, what is Amy talking about? We travel in the admission office. We travel out and meet students where they are and invite them to campus. And a lot of really, you know, as you just said, was a true recruitment.

Getting the students to click submit by November first early actually early decision, which usually results in a significant number of applications here on November first by midnight, or maybe it's twelve one on the second, right? We have always had this role in this office the end of August to October 31st travel as much as you can travel

, visit as many schools as you can visit and then November first. Sorry, no more traveling. We have a big meeting, a reading meeting and we stop and we say, How was the fall? What did we feel? Some of the questions you're asking us, what were the questions out there?

Did you see fewer or more students than usual, all of those things? What do we think the Pulse is in and among the seniors right now? We go through every year the reading document. This is a manual that we go through every year with a fine tooth comb looking at how do we look at GPAs, how do

we look at the strength of curriculum and what is our philosophy behind reading? And how are we trying to build the class right? We remind ourselves about our implicit bias and kind of what our own backgrounds are and how will we bring that to the table?

Where do we check ourselves and each other what the goals are of the college this coming year, right? How many freshmen are we really looking for? What is the composition of that class, etc. So that's why I call it our reset meeting, because then you go from year, you take your marketing hat off and you really go

in and you turn into account and you start reading those applications. We go back to Calvin uniforms of sweats and, you know, maybe a couple days of unwashed hair.

Because you're.

Sitting in front of the computer reading through and giving each student's application the time and dedication it deserves because they had put a lot of time in and thought when they were filling out those applications before they sent it to us.

So it feels sad to continue to ask about this. But you know, as we still are feeling some of the effects of the pandemic stretching into yet another year, how is it affecting the college search process in your opinion?

Like our, you know, we have college, we have college campus tours, in-person again, thank goodness. But what else has changed in your opinion?

one thing, and Amy, I'd be interested to hear if you've had any counselors tell you this, but I have had a handful of counselors in my territory in the Midwest mentioned that they feel that both juniors and seniors are behind in their search process.

I even had a senior in a visit last week, or maybe it was this week. I think it was this week. He went so far to say, I don't feel ready for this. I don't feel like I'm a senior.

I spent two years on Zoom and now I'm here and I'm expected to go through this process, whereas I'm still kind of feeling like I'm a sophomore or a junior. I don't feel like we're the seniors, and we should be going through all of these things.

So it's it's interesting to hear that specific of a of a comment regarding the time spent on Zoom. I have heard some counselors make some comments about about students feeling behind. The counselors feel like they are behind in an even more anxiety about the process because as any kind of alluded to, like when we get into the

applications, you know, students spend a lot of time on on what they submit to us. But in the past couple of years, you know, we've seen schools have to make adjustments about how they're providing grades to students, how they how they grade students.

Students are not able to participate in activities the same way that they were. So this reset meeting that that Amy referenced really is important because it gives us a chance to figure out what are we going to see in this process?

And you know what? What kinds of things should we be prepared for and how can we, as a staff ensure that we are giving these students that have have painstakingly in some instances applied to pick the best chance that they can for admission because we want to ensure that they that they that we are giving them the

appropriate amount of time and review and thoughtfulness. And in all of these things that played a part in their their time in high school, right? No school on Zoom and no activities and canceled programs. And all of these things that have impacted how they view their high school careers and high school experiences.

It's been interesting to watch, especially this fall.

Yeah, I would agree. I mean, as much as students are excited and eager for the future, I think some of their counselors, as Megan said, you know, have seen they can compare them to where other seniors have been in the past and how much knowledge or lack thereof there might be at this point.

So I agree. I've had a couple of counselors say that to me as well. I know the students do have the anxiety of what are we going to see on the transcript? What are we going to think when we see grades that might look a little out of sorts for March of 2020 or last year?

How are we going to compare them to students from other high schools, which we don't do? But when half of their time was on Zoom, we see it across the socioeconomic lines. I think even more so sadly, right.

We know the students who opted to stay home full time or had to pick up the extra shifts out their job because their parent or guardian got sick or couldn't work or having New York City. You know, some of the if if their dad is a taxi driver or the mom is a home health care aide and

they couldn't work, these students couldn't log into their Zoom classes because they had extra shifts because they were the the healthy one or the one who could work at their job, at whatever Dunkin Donuts or whatever it might be.

You know, I've heard that story a number of times and that I feel like that's more so. It's exacerbated, I think, by COVID is what I mean to say you.

Well, and it's so important to keep that in mind that the students, the students on campus have had definitely not had a traditional college experience, and the high school students who were coming up and joining our community definitely didn't have a traditional high school experience themselves.

And we talk about we've talked a lot about anxiety during our conversation and a lot of incoming students, you know, even before the pandemic, worried about how they were going to succeed in class at Providence College if they were ready for the rigor of the curriculum here.

With the caveat that we understand that things are still not necessarily settled and in place in all of our the schools where we draw from, what can students who are current high school students now seniors juniors do to prepare for what they could expect if they want to?

They know they want to join Providence College and be. PE students here.

I am of the mindset that when I talk to students about how to prepare to go to college in general. Yes, obviously we talk about that, but we any references like we part of our titles at one point or currently our counselors and I take that part of my job very seriously, as does Amy, in that we

want to ensure that students understand. How to prepare with trying not to stress them out more about being prepared, right? And so I think I'd like to talk to students about this sense of challenging yourself appropriately. It's not going to do you any good to overwork, overexert yourself to the point of mental health issues, physical issues, that

kind of thing. But balancing your schedule with honors and AP classes, taking some challenging classes. That's going to prepare you for a lot of really great institutions across the country so that you can be ready to kind of take that next step.

And that's that's something that I feel like I talk to high school students about a lot is that how high school and college classes are different and how you're kind of treated differently as a student and how mentally you can wrap your mind around being prepared for that.

And one of the great ways to be able to do that is by working through some things in high school if you are able to do so.

Yeah, definitely. I think the other part, too, related to that is not only thinking about how college is different, but also asking themselves, I always tell students and families this, especially those in 11th grade, you know, asking themselves what they need to be happy, asking themselves what they need to be successful, what are their favorite things?

What do they what gets them excited? Sometimes I'll ask them what their what homework is. It is that they do first. We always do the homework that we like the best first grade. We save the stuff we don't like for the end because I think sometimes the students in the families are so interested in crafting what we

want to hear, what we want to see or what's going to make them look the best. And they're trying to, like, fold themselves into this funky box when maybe they're a circle, not a square, or maybe they're trying, you know, and really trying to honor those pieces and that voice.

I think that's the part that would then help them be the most successful in the college search process. Those are the students who I think we get most excited about reading in the application, the ones who get to be themselves, and we get excited because they they have these cool things.

It's not that we have a hierarchy of what events or what activities are are the most important to us, right? You know, you have the mom who causes this, but my son's an altar boy. I'm like, Well, that's great.

But you know, what is he like to do? Like what is what is the exciting part for him? one of our supplemental essay questions was on the on the application, and it's optional. We have three different choices. My favorite one, above all, is Meghan.

You might guess what's your favorite themes are? What what is your theme song and why? Because that really is right.

Yeah, totally.

We've gotten the best answers to that. You know, one person put Jingle Bells and then they explained about how how the holidays make them feel happy in their families. You know, it's Neil Diamond because it was something Grandpa used to say with them all the time, you know?

You know, those of us who are over a certain age have to Google certain artists because we have no idea.

Who they.

Are. But, you know, it's something that just really speaks authentically to who they are. And I think that's, you know, that would be my advice. Any time I can give it is, you know, don't ask what I want to hear, what do you want to tell me?

Mm hmm.

I love that.

Yeah, I think we need to make a playlist of some theme songs here.

You don't miss a great idea. Yeah. Matt was keeping track of them for a little while and then I don't know what happened to them, but we had.

Some good conversations about it. Yeah, it's definitely a conversation starter.

Oh, for sure. Yeah, because the songs are fascinating in and of themselves, right? But why they choose them almost like just as fascinating in a completely different way to like, learn about these students in a more relaxed way.

It's it's fantastic. That's yeah.

And it always circles back to something else in their application. It's great. It's either something they wrote about in their essay or something a counselor alluded to in the letter. Or, you know, an activity. You know, Chariots of Fire and you're a runner.

Yeah, that makes sense, right?

Direct line.

Boundary. We can say.

Right now.

There's no guesswork involved.

So. What we have a few minutes is curious. You both are counselors. What are the favorite? What are your favorite parts of your job? What drew you to this? This line of work with all of the caveats and some of the frustrations we mentioned, including, you know, long nights reading applications and and racing to make making flights

to yet another round of high school visits. Right, right.

What would you say or is this mine?

So I guess I would have to say mine have evolved, right? Because this is my 24th 23rd year and admissions overall. And wrinkles aside, I would say, I think I think my favorite, my favorite thing now is really helping and watching and being with my colleagues, right, helping our staff realize their full potentials and what they like

to do, watching other people get really excited about our work and what we do. I still love working with the students, of course, right, engaging with them and watching that light bulb turn on for them. But so much more of my work now happens behind the scenes.

And, you know, doing a lot of staff meetings and strategy planning. And, you know, I don't know those last minute calls to help an event happen on campus or something. But watching watching that success happen for other people and watching them engage with our students is, I think, one of the most valuable things hands down for me

right now in my work. So maybe that doesn't exactly fit on an emotion podcast, but it's truthful.

There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes to make it all. Yeah, for sure. Great.

Really, though? Yes.

100% where exactly.

I I mean my favorite part, and it should make sense because I am regionally based. It's traveling and meeting with students. I love that I am in a community I love. I love being here in the Chicagoland area and getting to work with students from all over, getting to to go up to Milwaukee or go down to

Saint Louis to Indianapolis and and get to meet with students and kind of work with them through their college search process. And this journey that they're on, it's such an interesting and really unique time in their life to be working with them through all of this, and I have met some incredible students.

This is year number 15 for me and I'm just I am amazed and hopeful every year with the students that I encounter. I always tell them like, y'all are going to take care of us when, when, when I'm old and I am grateful that your generation of students will be the one to lead us and and take

charge because I think we've got some really bright, really talented, incredible human beings in this year's freshman class, but in previous classes that that I worked with as well. So that's my favorite part. But as a regional, you would hope that that would also be the case, right?

That's kind of my gig. That's kind of the thing that I do.

So, yeah, yeah, I like it. I like working with the parents too now as well and like having those mom to mom conversations like, Listen, ma'am, I get it. You know, my son hung the moon as well. However, so as Megan knows, sometimes I end up running interference between those parents that are little more peculiar and some

of the counts, which is very good at it. I don't mind. Think it's called me. We appreciate it.

So it has been a real pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for joining us.

Ames has spent a lot of fun to be here. Appreciate it. Thanks for doing this.

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